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Programming culture in the late aughts (2022)

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Re: Programming culture in the late aughts (2022)

#101

Post by collyw »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #95
citrin_ru wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startup mentality - you preparing to serve 100M users even if you have 1.5 right now and it will be rare luck to have even 1M because if you will not hit high numbers it doomed: high investment will not bring equally high returns and everything will be scrapped.

100M records is ~ 20 GB database. One of my companies needs to deal with large spikes in traffic coming from sudden virality on Tiktok and it peaks at around 8M users within a day or so. I handle all of that on a single beefy Hetzner machine with cycles to spare.

Stack overflow has very modest requirements considering it's one of the most visited sites on the net. https://stackexchange.com/performance

Re: Programming culture in the late aughts (2022)

#102

Post by collyw »

maccard wrote: post #66
divbzero wrote: post #22

12 years ago, even without AWS, you could get a Linode, host an app on its naked IP, and not made to feel too much like you weren't "serious" about hosting your app. These days you almost always need to know a fair bit of Docker and Docker Compose, a lot of people want to Kubernetes, ELBs got replaced by ALBs + NLBs which you gotta manage in VPCs which you gotta manage through Security Groups and your traffic gets ro…

I disagree. There are so many simpler options available. DO app platform is point and click deploy from GitHub for $5/month. Knowing docker these days is a huge boon - it immediately removes the "works on my machine" problem, and honestly the amount of docker knowledge required to deploy a basic even crud app is about 10 lines that can be copy and pasted from stack overflow by searching for "Dockerfile for X"

It solves that problem but adds it's own. I guess its overall a positive.

Re: Programming culture in the late aughts (2022)

#103

Post by kqr »

maccard wrote: post #66
divbzero wrote: post #22

12 years ago, even without AWS, you could get a Linode, host an app on its naked IP, and not made to feel too much like you weren't "serious" about hosting your app. These days you almost always need to know a fair bit of Docker and Docker Compose, a lot of people want to Kubernetes, ELBs got replaced by ALBs + NLBs which you gotta manage in VPCs which you gotta manage through Security Groups and your traffic gets ro…

I disagree. There are so many simpler options available. DO app platform is point and click deploy from GitHub for $5/month. Knowing docker these days is a huge boon - it immediately removes the "works on my machine" problem, and honestly the amount of docker knowledge required to deploy a basic even crud app is about 10 lines that can be copy and pasted from stack overflow by searching for "Dockerfile for X"

Just one anecdote, but I've had a script run flawlessly on its own in multiple environments, but it's docker image exhibited the "works on my machine" problem for some reason!

(Never bothered figuring out why since the script ran fine on its own and was replaced with a proper application shortly thereafter.)

Re: Programming culture in the late aughts (2022)

#104

Post by mdaverde »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #94
mdaverde wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: how do you reliably deploy? And if it's just scp-ing tarballs, how do you handle dependencies? Do you run & upgrade any third-party processes that rely on having their filesystem or deps? Struggling with this because even in a small app in a Linode box, I don't mind just cp-ing my bins but there's always other things/versions they need. Thinking of bringing in Ansible to help me out here. Deploying feels ea…

If your problem is needing to synchronize a complex mesh of services when you upgrade stuff, the solution is to not have a complex mesh of services that needs managing. I have a dist-directory, in it is a directory for with each release version, and a symlink current pointing to the current release. To deploy a new version, I create a new directory, unpack each service, and then redirect the symlink ... then "systemc…

Just read your article: https://www.marginalia.nu/log/09-system-upgrade/

You got rid of a lot but where did the functionality for those tools go? I understand wanting to get rid of containers & Kubernetes, but did you rewrite/bake the functionality in to your app? or maybe not care about monitoring and logs temporarily for now?

Re: Programming culture in the late aughts (2022)

#105

Post by golergka »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #89
golergka wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most serious electron based applications are not single threaded.

Is Teams serious? https://twitter.com/ernerfeldt/status/1640972391265230848

I don't see any details about their usage of threads in this video.

Re: Programming culture in the late aughts (2022)

#106

Post by dijit »

jhawleypeters wrote: post #77
dijit wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend is 6’4” and drives a Honda fit without issue. There is definitely middle ground - frankly, I don’t believe you are interested in hearing it because you have already decided that obscenely large cars that kill children easily are the only way you can feel like you're experiencing comfort.

My position is that large vehicles can be accessibility tools. It's okay for people to need and use such things. The way you react to that is pretty rude.

I simply refuse to believe that an ordinary sized european car (that is no problem for countries with comparatively higher average heights) are "immobilizing [you] for weeks at a time".

I think you're being disingenuous, I have no obligation to be kind to your face when you spin such dramatic falsehoods.

Re: Programming culture in the late aughts (2022)

#107

Post by dtech »

aa-jv wrote: post #49
dtech wrote: post #30

> The story that solidified is: Use Boring Technology. Use [...] Ruby [...] > I think this narrative, while conventional, is bollocks. [...] Ruby's weird semantics are credited for how one person as able to use it to make a world-changing framework; to call Ruby a "boring" choice now is a testament to how successful the right weird tech can be! Sorry, but this whole section is bollocks. I've never heard anyone call R…

Its not entirely bollocks, you may have just missed the point: technology is cyclical, according to its application . Once, Ruby on Rails was the badass , non-boring way to write apps, now - because it was once so badass - it is 'boring' in the sense that anyone can do it, and you don't really have to think about much - its quite possible to operate on cruise control, and is thus 'boring' from the coding cowboy/techn…

Plenty of new Serious™ Programming™ Projects™ use boring technology like Java and have for a long time. Once being the hot new thing and falling out of favor does not mean it's now a proven boring technology.

Re: Programming culture in the late aughts (2022)

#108

Post by rco8786 »

thoughtFrame wrote: post #100
rco8786 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just a mirage of a better time Don't fall into the "good ol' days" trap. There were more than enough problems/challenges/frustrations to go around back then too.

By good ol' days I meant that everything I've read about them tells me that set of problems and frustrations is better than what we have today, and software was actually made better by those circumstances. Of course, I can fire up DOS, NeXTStep, or Windows XP and get to doing it on my own, or hack on open sourced codebases from the time, but the key component is the teams of people doing it, and the common wisdom tha…

Right I'm just saying that's not correct. It's easy to view history through a very positive lens...nostalgia (even nostalgia for something you did not personally experience) is a powerful drug.

I have a lot of nostalgia for writing BASIC and the feeling that I got the first time I learned about HTML4 tables and ASP.NET. But you could not pay me to return to those technologies.

Re: Programming culture in the late aughts (2022)

#109

Post by njharman »

willcipriano wrote: post #14
lmm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this weird little bit of classism totally broke my immersion in an article I was otherwise really enjoying. Middle class people overwhelmingly can’t afford housing, but let’s shame them for trying to find at least one kind of affordable luxury in life? A giant car is probably the most harmful-to-others luxury indulgence you could pick (and a significant factor in why people can't afford housing). I'm all for having…

> A giant car is probably the most harmful-to-others luxury indulgence you could pick International travel. People need to get to work, nobody needs to backpack through Europe to "find themselves" (besides perhaps Europeans).

> People need to get to work, nobody needs to backpack through Europe

That is why American capitalism/consumerism is bad. Our society would be far, far better served if people exposed themselves to different cultures, beliefs, experienced world first hand instead of through talking head media. If more "found themselves" they'd know life isn't about work and money.

Re: Programming culture in the late aughts (2022)

#110

Post by marginalia_nu »

Capricorn2481 wrote: post #96
marginalia_nu wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Works better than ever. If anyone ever asks how my search engine, running on consumer hardware and hosted off domestic broadband, how it survives the hacker news front page time and time again without the load times even deteriorating a bit, while many other websites that are ostensibly static in nature tend to keel over? Then the answer is something like this. * nginx * Java * Macroservice architecture * Vertical sc…

How do you handle authentication without cookies?

I don't.
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