Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

blog.tomayac.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 139 posts

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#71

Post by isametry »

fatfox wrote: post #60
kemayo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, I'm already sick of "let me send you desktop notifications!" popups.

To turn off notification popups, in Safari... 1. Go to Settings 2. Open Websites tab 3. Select General -> Notifications 4. Untick "Allow websites to ask for permission to send notifications" No more notification popups!

Today I learned, thanks!

I kind of wish there was a "Block and notify" option though, like there is with pop-up windows. One reason is that sometimes you might actually want to enable them, but it seems like there's no indication of the attempt at all.

But even for crappy websites, it would also be nice to know that they tried because it's one of the things that help to weed them out more easily.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#72

Post by LoganDark »

crazygringo wrote: post #65
guessmyname wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does using Slack as a Safari Web App reduce resource consumption vs the Electron app? Yes. Yes it does. This is why “native” apps that use the operating system’s default WebView for the corresponding platform run seamlessly compared to apps packaged with Electron. Safari is has much better performance than any other web browser on macOS, and this change will allow users to access those benefits.

Seamlessly? How is Electron not seamless? Also using Safari is great if your app is Mac-only, but the whole point of Electron is to support Mac and Windows and Linux. And not have to worry about browser quirks and Safari versions and backfills and whatnot.

> Seamlessly? How is Electron not seamless?

Because it duplicates the overhead of an entire browser (and Chromium at that) rather than the overhead of a single webpage in an already-open browser?

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#73

Post by LoganDark »

azangru wrote: post #30
Loveaway wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to be dimissive, I know it's good intentions and all, but please don't do that. We don't need any more unsolicited banners or prompts. See it's one reason native apps are so much preferred over websites. Websites always have banners and whatnot, good apps don't do these things.

> We don't need any more unsolicited banners or prompts. If you open https://squoosh.app on a phone (or in browser dev tools emulating a phone), you will see what I think is a great example of use of an install prompt that I personally would be totally ok with. screenshot – https://i.imgur.com/NALZpz8.png

> on a phone (or in browser dev tools emulating a phone)

or on any browser supporting Web Apps (like recent versions of Chrome/Chromium)

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#74

Post by isametry »

jljljl wrote: post #46

Does using Slack as a Safari Web App reduce resource consumption vs the Electron app? This seems like a huge deal if so

I think it's safe to assume any Safari PWA will be more resource-efficient than a Chromium counterpart.

In most cases, the decision will finally always revolve around the system hooks – how many does the Electron app have, and whether are you able to live without them.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#75

Post by mszcz »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #66
fatfox wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To turn off notification popups, in Safari... 1. Go to Settings 2. Open Websites tab 3. Select General -> Notifications 4. Untick "Allow websites to ask for permission to send notifications" No more notification popups!

Unfortunately many websites send a JS-based notification which can't be blocked before prompting you for the system one. I think the idea is that that can spam the JS one as much as they want, but once you say no to the system one, that's it, they can't prompt with it again.

Yeah, I hate that. It's usually easy to spot, so I click "allow" on the JS notification and then block the real one when it pops up.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#76

Post by jljljl »

LoganDark wrote: post #72
crazygringo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seamlessly? How is Electron not seamless? Also using Safari is great if your app is Mac-only, but the whole point of Electron is to support Mac and Windows and Linux. And not have to worry about browser quirks and Safari versions and backfills and whatnot.

> Seamlessly? How is Electron not seamless? Because it duplicates the overhead of an entire browser (and Chromium at that) rather than the overhead of a single webpage in an already-open browser?

So overhead for a single app might be comparable, but each subsequent Electron app that I replace with a Safari Web App would use significantly less CPU/RAM

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#77

Post by chaosharmonic »

pjmlp wrote: post #5
samuelstros wrote: post #2

The slow death of Electron & Co? Electron apps like Discord, Slack, etc. don't seem to gain any benefit from being wrapped in Electron anymore. Have one codebase, one app, that works everywhere and can now even be "installed" with Safari.

One can only hope. We keep having this idea since MSHTML and XUL,and thankfully it eventually goes out of fashion. I already have a browser, an OS Web widgets, no need to package a browser with the application other than laziness. Everyone shipping Electron is yet another ChromeOS advocate.

I mean, wouldn't the ChromeOS way be to just... use Chrome itself without also running server-side JS underneath it? Arguably this is the opposite -- Google goes in hard on the idea of expanding the Web's capabilities, after all, where a lot of the Apple camp has historically preferred keeping certain system-level stuff like hardware access away from browsers. Shipping Node underneath seems to skew more toward the latter, even if it's going to vary by team whether it's a philosophical choice or just a pragmatic one.

I agree that I'd rather just have a system WebView for things like this, but putting aside that the landscape for those is effectively just Blink/V8 or WebKit/JavaScriptCore at this point, it's still perfectly valid to just want a single engine that behaves consistently across environments -- particularly given Safari's history of being slow to adopt Web standards even when they don't fall into the whole argument of capability.

Even Tauri, which currently relies on system WebViews, has started collaborating with the Servo team[0], at which point you're cycling right back to shipping a browser stack for writing desktop apps in JavaScript. (And for that part, I'll take the further development of alternative browser engines as a net gain tbh. See also: Wolvic.)

[0] https://twitter.com/TauriApps/status/1505618001126731781

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#78

Post by pjmlp »

chaosharmonic wrote: post #77
pjmlp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can only hope. We keep having this idea since MSHTML and XUL,and thankfully it eventually goes out of fashion. I already have a browser, an OS Web widgets, no need to package a browser with the application other than laziness. Everyone shipping Electron is yet another ChromeOS advocate.

I mean, wouldn't the ChromeOS way be to just... use Chrome itself without also running server-side JS underneath it? Arguably this is the opposite -- Google goes in hard on the idea of expanding the Web's capabilities, after all, where a lot of the Apple camp has historically preferred keeping certain system-level stuff like hardware access away from browsers. Shipping Node underneath seems to skew more toward the la…

In a couple of years one can scrape Web Developer designation on job advertising, replacing it by ChromeOS Developer instead.

And they used to complain about IE hegemony, what goes around comes around.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#79

Post by kemayo »

fatfox wrote: post #60
kemayo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, I'm already sick of "let me send you desktop notifications!" popups.

To turn off notification popups, in Safari... 1. Go to Settings 2. Open Websites tab 3. Select General -> Notifications 4. Untick "Allow websites to ask for permission to send notifications" No more notification popups!

I'm sort of resistant to that, because despite never having actually wanted to do so I keep thinking that there might someday be a site I'll want to allow notifications on...

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#80

Post by crazygringo »

LoganDark wrote: post #72
crazygringo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seamlessly? How is Electron not seamless? Also using Safari is great if your app is Mac-only, but the whole point of Electron is to support Mac and Windows and Linux. And not have to worry about browser quirks and Safari versions and backfills and whatnot.

> Seamlessly? How is Electron not seamless? Because it duplicates the overhead of an entire browser (and Chromium at that) rather than the overhead of a single webpage in an already-open browser?

Sure but that has nothing to do with the idea of being seamless.

Seamlessness is a UX concept, not a memory/resources concept.

Post reply on HN