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Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

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Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#411

Post by jojobas »

wesapien wrote: post #378
jojobas wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "person" can't sell a naked option, this can only be done by bigger companies with a margin account, and will be margin-called when the price approaches the strike price. The point is, should call options used for hedging regulated as insurance?

Margin accounts aren't that exclusive. I opened a margin account just because but I've never dipped into it. It's just a tool and if you know how to use it, good for you.

Margin accounts may not be, naked options seem to be.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#412

Post by taffronaut »

ethbr0 wrote: post #396
kahnclusions wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem comes when they want to use their crypto horde to buy real world stuff. Want to buy a house? Now you need to convert your crypto into fiat and a deed transfer. People will start asking where your funds are coming from. This is where you tend to get caught.

> People will start asking where your funds are coming from. This is a weird statement. If it's a cash offer, it's a seller's job to determine if you have the money, not if you paid taxes on it. If it's a mortgage down payment, then the bank is more interested in if your assets are going to disappear (e.g. are they actually a loan from a third party?). I've never had a mortgage bank inquire about my tax situation. If…

>> People will start asking where your funds are coming from.

>This is a weird statement.

Not in the UK. Here there's a legal obligation on the conveyancing practitioner - which you have to use - to confirm the source of funds for the purchase. They "will ask questions about your salary, request bank statements and ask you to give details of any family inheritances"[1].

[1] https://www.bannerjones.co.uk/your-property/services/buying/...

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#413

Post by colatkinson »

TheDong wrote: post #393
Animats wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are legal crypto exchanges in the US. Gemini, for one.[1] They're a trust company, regulated as a bank by New York State.[2] [1] https://www.gemini.com/ [2] https://dfs.ny.gov/apps_and_licensing/banks_and_trusts/comme...

The SEC certainly thinks gemini is running an illegal exchange, and said so quite clearly when charging them of that earlier this year: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-7 The case has not been dropped, and I think pretty clearly states the SEC's opinion, which is quite consistent with what I said above. It is not legal to run a crypto exchange in the US (under current security laws I should add).

That case appears to be specific to Gemini Earn, a "staking" product where users would loan Gemini money and in exchange would get returns on that money through Gemini/Genesis's investment of those funds.

Under the Howey test (a security is "a contract, transaction or scheme whereby a person invests his money in a common enterprise and is led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or a third party") this is pretty clearly an unregistered security IMO. Whereas e.g. using Gemini solely to exchange N USD for M BTC with the customer retaining ownership the whole time is probably not. So had the Winklevi stuck to being a traditional exchange, they could have avoided this specific issue.

Of course, the SEC seems to believe that many shitcoins are also securities ("Buy this token for a % share in our company! Totally not equity!" is... not a convincing argument). But that's not what the complaint you linked is actually about.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#414

Post by a2800276 »

WJW wrote: post #407
drumhead wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly another group in the future, people trying to evade government control from a CBDC.

How is that group different than group 1, "People who don't like banks or the government's monetary policy, and ideologically believe they have to own their own wallets."?

It's different because it also include the drug dealers from group 2 who need to evade government control and uses the fancy acronym CBDC.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#415

Post by TeMPOraL »

nroets wrote: post #343
flangola7 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And many countries are moving in that direction, so what's your point?

For millennia governments survived with cash in circulation. Crypto is no real threat to their existence. Regulating it with a heavy hand will do more harm than good. Those innovators will just move offshore.

The difference between cash and crypto is like the difference between building a room on top of a tall tower, vs. strapping a few jet engines to it and pointing them downwards. Both methods solve the same problem - but one does it mostly passively, while the other one wastes absurd amount of energy simulating the same thing you normally get for free.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#416

Post by jwestbury »

Gazoche wrote: post #322
raincole wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto's fate is bound be like those alternative Reddits and Twitters. What kind of users an alternative Reddit attracts? 1. People who don't like Reddit because of privacy concerns or other ideological reasons. 2. People who are banned by Reddit. It turns out group 2 is much larger than group 1 and the community rots. Now what kind of people who cryptos (a.k.a. alternative money) attract? 1. People who don't like ba…

There's also group 3: people who don't give a damn about crypto's actual use cases but see the line go up and think they can make a quick buck by buying at the right time. I'd wager that group 3 is much larger than groups 1 and 2.

Yes, crypto is basically FOREX or precious metals to most people who buy and sell crypto -- a chance to make some money, nothing more.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#417

Post by stale2002 »

flangola7 wrote: post #333
nroets wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make the same argument that governments should ban physical cash.

And many countries are moving in that direction, so what's your point?

So the point is that a large amount of people think that banning cash would be completely absurd and therefore this isn't just some issue that is relegated to obscure crypto fans.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#418

Post by a2800276 »

safety1st wrote: post #398
cycomanic wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is evading tax not as bad as scamming people? Isn't it really just scamming the public (i.e. everyone)?

It's certainly more morally complex than just scamming somebody. Money is property. People generally agree that once you earn your money, it belongs to you. Is the government automatically entitled to part of it? The Boston Tea Party, the Women's Tax Resistance League, and Gandhi's Salt March are a few examples where people said no. Usually in this context the "evaders" will refer to it as tax resistance or tax prote…

> Is the government automatically entitled to part of it? The Boston Tea Party, the Women's Tax Resistance League, and Gandhi's Salt March are a few examples where people said no.

Your argument doesn't make sense. The example you cite are examples of protest against unjust taxation not that "the government is not entitled" to any of my crypto. As you yourself elaborate in the following paragraphs. Are you seriously suggesting parallels between the crypto bros and Gandhi in that they are both participating in civil disobedience? Oh. Please.

And SBF is just a modern day MLK because both are referred to by TLAs!

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#419

Post by TeMPOraL »

codetrotter wrote: post #402
forgetfreeman wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto's been a think for almost 15 years now. I think we can dispense with the narrative that there's anything innovative going on.

Money of account (debits and credits on ledgers) have existed for 30,000 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money But a system that takes the concept of ledgers, and makes it tied to pseudonymous addresses instead of persons, is distributed across the world, resilient to tampering, and which gives its users control over their money, and which has been in use for 15 years is 1. “Not innovative”, and 2. Tha…

> But a system that takes the concept of ledgers, and makes it tied to pseudonymous addresses instead of persons, is distributed across the world, resilient to tampering (...) is 1. “Not innovative”

Well, it is innovative, in the same sense a jet engine is. What you don't do with jet engines is using them to keep static structures in the air indefinitely. You use steel beams or concrete for that.

Crypto tech as cash alternative is pretty much jet engine as a steel tower alternative.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#420

Post by a2800276 »

anoy8888 wrote: post #297
raincole wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto's fate is bound be like those alternative Reddits and Twitters. What kind of users an alternative Reddit attracts? 1. People who don't like Reddit because of privacy concerns or other ideological reasons. 2. People who are banned by Reddit. It turns out group 2 is much larger than group 1 and the community rots. Now what kind of people who cryptos (a.k.a. alternative money) attract? 1. People who don't like ba…

Outside the US , crypto is mainly used by criminals. It is the currency of drug dealers here in Southeast Asia like myanmar , Thai etc

Not just outside the US.
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