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Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

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Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#291

Post by Eisenstein »

mushbino wrote: post #98
lvl102 wrote: post #36

Bitcoin solves this. Sorry I just had to. I think crypto as an investable asset class is finished. SEC is sending a very clear signal here. It’s entirely the community’s fault for failing to properly manage this space. They actually earned public’s trust (sometime during the pandemic). And then they threw it all away for a few bucks.

Companies have been asking for regulation for years. The bad actors are a result of that not happening.

I know, right. I asked the SEC to create regulation for my system of using a ledger I created to keep track of numbers that people use to trade for dollars and then back again and then make more of those numbers and trade them for other kinds of numbers and money and then back again and they won't do it. When they asked me what the hell it is I just turn around and ask 'but how do I comply?' and they stonewall me. I don't understand it.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#292

Post by testacct22 »

Xunxi wrote: post #238
lolinder wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find the original source, but a while ago I read a really compelling article (linked from here) which explained why centralization is inevitable. I think it's relevant here, because if centralization is inevitable then it's reasonable to treat crypto as interchangeable with the exchanges. Essentially, the thesis was that a decentralized protocol can never evolve and adapt as quickly as a centralized platform,…

https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html

> This might suggest that decentralization itself is not actually of immediate practical or pressing importance to the majority of people downstream, that the only amount of decentralization people want is the minimum amount required for something to exist

Seems to me like building a centralized system on top of a decentralized one, similar to my earlier example of building a bank on top of something designed to circumvent the bank

General rule seems to be greed v laziness -> centralization

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#293

Post by censless »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #172

The SEC was meeting with SBF and failed to protect US citizens who sent money to FTX. So far Binance hasn't pulled a ponzi scam (they existed before Alameda/FTX and have never stolen anyone's money). So basically the SEC failed to protect people from that ponzi scammer boy SBF was, but they're going after the like of Binance and Coinbase, who, so far, never stole a cent from anyone?

> So basically the SEC failed to protect people from that ponzi scammer boy SBF was, but they're going after the like of Binance and Coinbase, who, so far, never stole a cent from anyone?

Agreed. SEC should have given enough time to these two so that they could fleece people of their money, then declare themselves bankrupt and then have law enforcement go to other countries and have the culprits extradicted back. Finally have everyone shouting "SEC colluded with these culprits".

I don't understand this rush to stop this from happening.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#294

Post by JumpCrisscross »

marcell wrote: post #255
pavlov wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know Binance hasn't stolen anyone's money? Is there a reputable auditor's statement to that effect? Seems very unlikely when Binance pretends they're not even headquartered in any jurisdiction. Nobody has any idea about Binance's actual money flows and where customer funds have actually ended up.

> How do you know Binance hasn't stolen anyone's money? In America you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Therefore, under our legal system, Binance.US is presumed to not have stolen anyone's money until the SEC passes the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

> Binance.US is presumed to not have stolen anyone's money until the SEC passes the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt

These aren’t criminal charges. The standard is preponderance of evidence.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#295

Post by ryan_lane »

nroets wrote: post #281
cycomanic wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is evading tax not as bad as scamming people? Isn't it really just scamming the public (i.e. everyone)?

Tax evasion is rife: How many tradesmen fixing stuff around your house for cash will report that income on their return ? Governments can get most of their revenue with little economic distortion by taxing stuff where evasion is much harder: Fuel taxes and property taxes.

Tax evasion is people stealing from you, just in an indirect way. Just because some people already steal from us doesn't mean it's OK for other (richer) people to steal even more from us.

You may believe there's a better way for the government to tax us, but that's not how the system works currently.

Crypto being used for tax evasion is a good reason for it to be regulated out of existence.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#296

Post by [deleted] »

x3sphere wrote: post #268
pavlov wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know Binance hasn't stolen anyone's money? Is there a reputable auditor's statement to that effect? Seems very unlikely when Binance pretends they're not even headquartered in any jurisdiction. Nobody has any idea about Binance's actual money flows and where customer funds have actually ended up.

We don't. But by the same token, these are just allegations so far. It is interesting however, the SEC purportedly has tons of evidence of wrongdoing at these exchanges but completely missed FTX which was a massive fraud. Color me skeptical, it's almost like they are saving face for missing FTX. FTX was even regulated to some extent -- I remember you were able to buy tokenized versions of US stocks on there.

[deleted]

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#297

Post by anoy8888 »

raincole wrote: post #143
lvl102 wrote: post #36

Bitcoin solves this. Sorry I just had to. I think crypto as an investable asset class is finished. SEC is sending a very clear signal here. It’s entirely the community’s fault for failing to properly manage this space. They actually earned public’s trust (sometime during the pandemic). And then they threw it all away for a few bucks.

Crypto's fate is bound be like those alternative Reddits and Twitters. What kind of users an alternative Reddit attracts? 1. People who don't like Reddit because of privacy concerns or other ideological reasons. 2. People who are banned by Reddit. It turns out group 2 is much larger than group 1 and the community rots. Now what kind of people who cryptos (a.k.a. alternative money) attract? 1. People who don't like ba…

Outside the US , crypto is mainly used by criminals. It is the currency of drug dealers here in Southeast Asia like myanmar , Thai etc

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#298

Post by EscapeFromNY »

lolinder wrote: post #280
EscapeFromNY wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting point, but I think you've stretched it a little thin. Taking one of your examples, I don't think anyone would ever say "it's reasonable to treat the web as interchangeable with Facebook". Sure, for some people Facebook is all they use the web for - but that's definitely not true for everyone. And the web doesn't depend on Facebook existing either. When Facebook dies, the web will be just fine.

Certainly Facebook alone, but that's why I included the "et al". For most of the world, "the internet" is interchangeable with "the few big platforms I regularly use". It's not technically accurate, but I don't begrudge them the usage because that is their internet.

In your analogy, "Facebook et al" seems equivalent to "Binance et al". And OP asked about journalists too. Imagine if CNBC ran an article titled "Facebook fined for privacy violations - is this the end of the internet?" We'd all have a field day. I don't begrudge your grandma for not knowing the difference. But a journalist or HN commenter is expected to know. I wish we held crypto discourse to that same standard of being at least minimally informed.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#299

Post by nroets »

water554 wrote: post #274
nroets wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is used to circumvent capital controls: In other words to create a free market in foreign exchange for countries that ban it. Crypto is also used to evade taxes. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's not as bad as dealing drugs or scamming people.

Why is dealing drugs bad? Bringing hard to obtain product to customers who want and will pay for it.

A friend of mine got hooked on something really bad. We could all see his health deteriorate month by month. He's probably dead right now. Even his parents don't know where he is. He's son will grow up without a father.

I never met his dealer, but I'm sure the dealer saw the decay and did nothing.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#300

Post by Eisenstein »

EscapeFromNY wrote: post #285
Eisenstein wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anything, really. I tried to bring my bitcoin to the grocery store to buy some brownie mix and cheese slices but they wouldn't take any coins from my Trezor.

I had a similar experience. I brought a gold bar to Jumbo and tried to buy a croissant, and the cashier just looked at me funny and asked for my card. That's when I realized gold is worthless

I know. I keep baseball cards instead.
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