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Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

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Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#211

Post by ncraig »

whatever1 wrote: post #102
lvl102 wrote: post #36

Bitcoin solves this. Sorry I just had to. I think crypto as an investable asset class is finished. SEC is sending a very clear signal here. It’s entirely the community’s fault for failing to properly manage this space. They actually earned public’s trust (sometime during the pandemic). And then they threw it all away for a few bucks.

Crypto investing should die. But I would also want to see derivatives die. Like what it even mean to "invest" in QQQ or VIX? This is just gambling (unless you have market inside knowledge).

>Like what it even mean to "invest" in QQQ... just gambling

There are many arguments that index investing is the best long-term strategy. Is NASDAQ the issue?

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#212

Post by khuey »

whatever1 wrote: post #102
lvl102 wrote: post #36

Bitcoin solves this. Sorry I just had to. I think crypto as an investable asset class is finished. SEC is sending a very clear signal here. It’s entirely the community’s fault for failing to properly manage this space. They actually earned public’s trust (sometime during the pandemic). And then they threw it all away for a few bucks.

Crypto investing should die. But I would also want to see derivatives die. Like what it even mean to "invest" in QQQ or VIX? This is just gambling (unless you have market inside knowledge).

In what sense is QQQ a derivative?

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#213

Post by Nursie »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #172

The SEC was meeting with SBF and failed to protect US citizens who sent money to FTX. So far Binance hasn't pulled a ponzi scam (they existed before Alameda/FTX and have never stolen anyone's money). So basically the SEC failed to protect people from that ponzi scammer boy SBF was, but they're going after the like of Binance and Coinbase, who, so far, never stole a cent from anyone?

I mean, if you ignore the countless reddit threads about not being able to access funds because the moment you try, they spring more and more requirements on people, or just plain ghost depositors..... even if you ignore that, what coinbase is doing seems to go heavily against rules that govern exchanges and the securities they exchange.

And Binance appears to be on the hook for various forms of fraud.

Maybe they did never steal a cent from anyone, but there are more crimes than theft on the books.

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#214

Post by Apofis »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #86
lvl102 wrote: post #36

Bitcoin solves this. Sorry I just had to. I think crypto as an investable asset class is finished. SEC is sending a very clear signal here. It’s entirely the community’s fault for failing to properly manage this space. They actually earned public’s trust (sometime during the pandemic). And then they threw it all away for a few bucks.

It's more the failure of the crypto community over the past 14 years to develop a use for crypto beyond speculation and crime.

[flagged]

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#215

Post by testacct22 »

Why do so many of the comments here and journalists assert that crypto and exchanges are the same thing?

Doesn't keeping coin in an exchange (as opposed to in a wallet, locally) sort of violate the ideology of crypto? Wasn't this shit invented to circumvent the banks?

I don't get it, using something meant to circumvent the banks, just to invest it in a less regulated form of a bank

Isn't to say I have a problem with crypto, but the one camp of people who shill these exchanges and the other that is saying crypto = exchanges = ponzi scheme are both wrong

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#216

Post by drumttocs8 »

raincole wrote: post #143
lvl102 wrote: post #36

Bitcoin solves this. Sorry I just had to. I think crypto as an investable asset class is finished. SEC is sending a very clear signal here. It’s entirely the community’s fault for failing to properly manage this space. They actually earned public’s trust (sometime during the pandemic). And then they threw it all away for a few bucks.

Crypto's fate is bound be like those alternative Reddits and Twitters. What kind of users an alternative Reddit attracts? 1. People who don't like Reddit because of privacy concerns or other ideological reasons. 2. People who are banned by Reddit. It turns out group 2 is much larger than group 1 and the community rots. Now what kind of people who cryptos (a.k.a. alternative money) attract? 1. People who don't like ba…

How are you measuring which group is bigger?

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#217

Post by arcticbull »

whatever1 wrote: post #102
lvl102 wrote: post #36

Bitcoin solves this. Sorry I just had to. I think crypto as an investable asset class is finished. SEC is sending a very clear signal here. It’s entirely the community’s fault for failing to properly manage this space. They actually earned public’s trust (sometime during the pandemic). And then they threw it all away for a few bucks.

Crypto investing should die. But I would also want to see derivatives die. Like what it even mean to "invest" in QQQ or VIX? This is just gambling (unless you have market inside knowledge).

QQQ, like most ETFs, isn't a derivative. You get a share that represents a basket of all of the NASDAQ-100 companies. This tracks the price of the components through creation/redemption mechanism. Authorized participants are able to create QQQ by sending a share of the constituent companies to the trust, and they're able to redeem QQQ for the shares in the trust. In this way participants are able to arbitrage the spread between QQQ and the components and keep the price tracking extremely, extremely closely. It also pays a 0.61% dividend because when the component in the trust pay a dividend it's distributed to QQQ shareholders - the ones who actually own the shares of the companies in the trust.

I would argue index investing is far less gambling than stock picking because you're betting on the overall direction of a market segment, in this case tech, as opposed to a specific tech stock. Stock investing, in aggregate, can be viewed as a positive-sum game - the value of your holdings tends to appreciate through the contributions of non-investor participants (company customers buying products -> increase in intrinsic value of the company).

VIX on the other hand is a very exotic product, and it's not an investment - it's a hedge, if you can call it that. VIX is a mean-reverting index that spikes up when volatility goes up and drops back down over time, the notional value of which is based on the premium of calls and puts on the S&P 500 over the coming 30 days. It's the derivative of a derivative - a 2nd derivative, if you will. Note that, importantly, you cannot buy a "VIX," there's no such thing. You can buy cash-settled VIX futures where people speculate on the index value on a certain date, and you can buy cash-settled European-style calls or puts (i.e. they cannot be exercised except at expiration, vs American options which can be exercised any time on or before expiration). You can also buy ETFs like VXX and UVXY that use futures and cash positions to attempt to track the index.

QQQ and VIX are very different things.

[edit] When I say VIX futures aren't an investment, check this out lol. Set the graph in [1] to Max duration. Since 2018 it's lost 96.5% of its value. Heck it's lost just shy of 50% of its value since January 1st. They just continuously reverse-split so the numbers aren't silly.

[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/VXX?p=VXX&.tsrc=fin-srch

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#218

Post by glitchc »

lvl102 wrote: post #36

Bitcoin solves this. Sorry I just had to. I think crypto as an investable asset class is finished. SEC is sending a very clear signal here. It’s entirely the community’s fault for failing to properly manage this space. They actually earned public’s trust (sometime during the pandemic). And then they threw it all away for a few bucks.

How do I get some Bitcoin? I can't afford to mine it anymore. What if I want to buy some more? Or sell some of what I have? What can I spend Bitcoin on? What does Bitcoin solve for me?

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#219

Post by nwiswell »

Apofis wrote: post #214
ProjectArcturis wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more the failure of the crypto community over the past 14 years to develop a use for crypto beyond speculation and crime.

[flagged]

> Anything that begins in crime never has a future.

I guess the United States doesn't have much of a future either? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

Re: Proposed SEC order to freeze, repatriate Binance.US assets

#220

Post by LapsangGuzzler »

derefr wrote: post #203
LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to NYT, Binance was moving billions into accounts held in Seychelles, Lithuania and Kazakhstan etc. via two banks that failed earlier this year in patterns that resemble money laundering[0]. If Binance was laundering its funds through two banks that just went through liquidation, you can bet that auditors figured that out pretty quick. 0: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/07/business/binance-cash-ban...

Patterns that resemble money laundering, but more closely resemble tax sheltering.

The article alleges that at least one of the offshore companies was commingling customer funds, which Binance denies. I'm no finance guy, but that seems like a pretty easy allegation to back up if they've been deep into one of Binance's intermediary banks (which they have).

The SEC has turned around 3 months after these banks collapsed and launched significant legal action against Binance and Coinbase, which says that what they found was serious enough to move really quickly against these guys. No idea what they found, but I have feeling we're all gonna be reading about it pretty soon.

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