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Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

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Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#131

Post by pmarreck »

api_or_ipa wrote: post #9

As a dvorak user, whatever increase in typing speed is mostly irrelevant, for most of us, our output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think. That being said, a long time ago I took an analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character onto dvorak and qwerty keyboards to produce heatmaps, and it's startling how much less the fingers have to move on a dvorak keyboard. So if you're lazy,…

What about Colemak?

Also, as a gamer, I'm concerned about keyboard mappings in games if I switch from Qwerty- I heard bad things, although games really should have switched from a key encoding mapping to a key location mapping a long time ago.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#132

Post by hajile »

nprateem wrote: post #30
taeric wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a colemak user, I have the same flow. I used to have a keyboard that had blank keycaps, but that isn't kind to the rest of the family that uses the computer. :D Numbers, amusingly, can mess me up.

I have literally just learnt about colemak from these comments. I suffer from RSI and have tried Dvorak in the past, but as a qwerty touch typist found it too different. How long did it take you to learn colemak? I guess if you still use it you find it better than qwerty?

I found it to be more comfortable, so I stuck with it. If I could do it again though, I’d swap between the two as I learned as I’m now rather slow with qwerty.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#133

Post by cge »

api_or_ipa wrote: post #9

As a dvorak user, whatever increase in typing speed is mostly irrelevant, for most of us, our output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think. That being said, a long time ago I took an analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character onto dvorak and qwerty keyboards to produce heatmaps, and it's startling how much less the fingers have to move on a dvorak keyboard. So if you're lazy,…

When I started using Dvorak, it was because I found that I could make my typing significantly quieter with Dvorak than with QWERTY, likely because of the reduced movement. As an undergraduate at a time when almost no one else had started typing notes in class, I found that there was a substantial reduction in how noticeable my typing was to others when I switched to Dvorak.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#134

Post by gnicholas »

So he mentions the "popular" belief that QWERTY was designed to avoid jams from typists hitting adjacent keys in rapid succession, but he doesn't say whether this is untrue or not. It seemed implied that this is false, but I'm left uncertain. Does anyone know?

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#135

Post by marssaxman »

marricks wrote: post #40
jerf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the best thing about Dvorak (and similar layouts) is that if you want to do proper touch typing, it is quite possibly easier to learn Dvorak than to learn how to touch type QWERTY. Touch typing QWERTY is a constant uphill battle of using your willpower to force yourself to type correctly, despite the rest of your brain claiming it isn't the optimal way to type on that layout. I don't know that your brain is…

This sounds very alluring but having to deal with setting up VIM in every environment or going to a new environment with VIM not set up sounds so painful. I imagine the native VIM bindings would be atrociously positioned in DVORAK

> I imagine the native VIM bindings would be atrociously positioned in DVORAK

This is why I don't use vim; I had been touch-typing in Dvorak for years by the time I encountered it, and vim's layout felt like it would require a painful degree of brute memorization.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#137

Post by adrian_b »

dadoum wrote: post #114

Dvorak is also based on English spelling, and thus its benefits vanish almost everywhere in the world. There are other alternative layouts, having the same kind of marginal gain over the standard, but then it's not available everywhere, and if you're a developer, you may also want an easier access to braces and stuff, and from here your keyboard will basically work nowhere unless you buy some kind of custom hardware…

Regardless whether one uses Dvorak or QWERTY, it is good to revert the effect of the shift key on the 10 numeric keys of the upper row.

Thus the non-alphanumeric symbols, which are more frequent in programming languages, are available directly, while keeping shift pressed for the entire duration of a number is easy, so it is a minor disadvantage.

I also find useful to map the 3 pairs of ASCII brackets on 3 keys, so that the opening brackets are available directly and the closing brackets with shift. I need very seldom to type the closing brackets, as they are normally inserted automatically by most editors.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#138

Post by nprateem »

microtonal wrote: post #106
nprateem wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have literally just learnt about colemak from these comments. I suffer from RSI and have tried Dvorak in the past, but as a qwerty touch typist found it too different. How long did it take you to learn colemak? I guess if you still use it you find it better than qwerty?

I use Colemak-DH and learned it through the Tarmak progression. RSI is probably the wrong reason to learn Colemak. It made little difference for me and as far as I know there is no scientific evidence that it helps. Better: get an adjustable table and chair and ensure that they are correctly configured. Take regular breaks and do exercises. Get a keyboard that is split (to ensure that your wrists are not bent) and te…

My MS ergonomic keyboard and vertical mouse definitely help. Never tried a Kinesis advantage though. I'll try it and see how I get on.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#139

Post by toyg »

gnicholas wrote: post #134

So he mentions the "popular" belief that QWERTY was designed to avoid jams from typists hitting adjacent keys in rapid succession, but he doesn't say whether this is untrue or not. It seemed implied that this is false, but I'm left uncertain. Does anyone know?

Wikipedia links a short paper discussing this: https://repository.kulib.kyoto-u.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2433...

TL;DR: it's more likely it was just the result of a series of progressive compromises, as keyboards moved from telegraph to typewriting.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#140

Post by wmedrano »

irjustin wrote: post #8
aaron_m04 wrote: post #6

One YouTube comment echoed my experience with Dvorak: > Often overlooked is that the main reason for switching to dvorak isn't speed for most users. The dvorak layout is layed out for minimal movement while maintaining a roughly even split between hands. This reduces strain on a typists hands and helps a great deal with comfort when typing for longer periods of time. I may not type faster than if I had stuck with qwe…

Split keyboards is my recommendation

Split keyboards solved my hand problems 6years ago. I started learning Dvorak this week to reduce my left index finger strain.
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