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Global Solar Power Investment Will Top $1B per Day This Year

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Re: Global Solar Power Investment Will Top $1B per Day This Year

#21

Post by oittaa »

timerol wrote: post #13
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #8

Careful of the municipal utility bait and switch! Here in Idaho they recently adjusted the net metering credit to greatly decrease the value of solar energy. They waited until there was a lot of solar adoption in the state, and then pulled the rug on solar owners under the guise of “making sure everyone pays their fair share”

I wouldn't characterize that as a bait-and-switch, but as adjusting to economic reality. When solar is <1% of penetration, a solar kWh is basically just as valuable as any other kWh. When solar gets over 10% of penetration, a solar kWh is worth much less than any other kWh - when the sun is shining, energy is plentiful. By the time you get to ~25% solar penetration, energy is almost free on a sunny day at noon, and m…

The whole "paying the fair share" is just propaganda from oil companies. I saw a great video about that recently which sums up the situation nicely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPfpa2KqYk0

Re: Global Solar Power Investment Will Top $1B per Day This Year

#22

Post by grej »

vasco wrote: post #11
standardUser wrote: post #7

I get a little frustrated that all of the people who crapped all over solar power can now simply sit there quietly as it becomes a major component of electricity generation and pay no price for spreading anti-solar propaganda at such a historically critical juncture. I always found it particularly grotesque coming from the HN crowd, where an audience of mostly engineers and entrepreneurs seemed to have no problem fin…

My imagination still prefers nuclear! I don't mind solar projects but think it's a big mistake to not invest in nuclear.

I think solar makes sense in all of the places that otherwise are unused. Roofs and the shades of car parks, for example. But I am not a fan of giant fields of solar panels. Or worse, taking arable land and covering it with solar panels.

Nuclear (smallest geographic footprint and smallest overall environmental impact) + solar & wind is the way forward.

Re: Global Solar Power Investment Will Top $1B per Day This Year

#23

Post by adaml_623 »

standardUser wrote: post #7

I get a little frustrated that all of the people who crapped all over solar power can now simply sit there quietly as it becomes a major component of electricity generation and pay no price for spreading anti-solar propaganda at such a historically critical juncture. I always found it particularly grotesque coming from the HN crowd, where an audience of mostly engineers and entrepreneurs seemed to have no problem fin…

"All the people"... Do you not realise it's different groups. And you just think it's the "HN crowd"

Re: Global Solar Power Investment Will Top $1B per Day This Year

#24

Post by tigroferoce »

pydry wrote: post #17
vasco wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My imagination still prefers nuclear! I don't mind solar projects but think it's a big mistake to not invest in nuclear.

Civilian nuclear power help share costs with the nuclear military industrial complex (e.g. Russia, France, UK, USA) and it's useful for countries that have a clear and pressing desire to be able to develop a nuclear bomb in a hurry (Sweden, South Korea, Japan), but without those caveats there isn't much point to it which is why nobody else builds it. Its LCOE is 5x that of solar and between 1.5x-3x more expensive tha…

Cost and time are a big part, but not the only part.

A real question is whether we can do with REN alone or not. If we can, good, let’s do it. If we can’t, then we must find something else, regardless of costs.

And by “do it” I mean electrify as much as possible (transports, heating, industries where possible) and compensate where we can’t (airplane, agriculture, cement).

Are we positive that we can make it? And what happens if we can’t? Should plan for the unhappy scenario too?

Re: Global Solar Power Investment Will Top $1B per Day This Year

#25

Post by ZeroGravitas »

standardUser wrote: post #7

I get a little frustrated that all of the people who crapped all over solar power can now simply sit there quietly as it becomes a major component of electricity generation and pay no price for spreading anti-solar propaganda at such a historically critical juncture. I always found it particularly grotesque coming from the HN crowd, where an audience of mostly engineers and entrepreneurs seemed to have no problem fin…

If the past trend in climate change denial is any guide, they'll just continue to crap on it, even as they are repeatedly proved dramatically wrong.

Though some recent attempts to pivot to "we aren't rolling out renewables fast enough because of environmentalists" suggest a few rats jumping from the sinking ship as reality bites hard.

Re: Global Solar Power Investment Will Top $1B per Day This Year

#26

Post by ianai »

vasco wrote: post #11
standardUser wrote: post #7

I get a little frustrated that all of the people who crapped all over solar power can now simply sit there quietly as it becomes a major component of electricity generation and pay no price for spreading anti-solar propaganda at such a historically critical juncture. I always found it particularly grotesque coming from the HN crowd, where an audience of mostly engineers and entrepreneurs seemed to have no problem fin…

My imagination still prefers nuclear! I don't mind solar projects but think it's a big mistake to not invest in nuclear.

My state proposed a grid battery solution that would have provided power for the entire state for up to 1-2 days IIRC. They didn’t approve it, but the budget wasn’t astronomical. I honestly wonder if the worry about off hours use is a little overblown.

Infrastructure has a history of both being expensive up front and funded. Imagine if the US didn’t have highways and trying to explain all the impacts to the GDP that modern highways make. The price would almost seem trivial compared to the trillions per year of GDP that goes over asphalt.

Re: Global Solar Power Investment Will Top $1B per Day This Year

#27

Post by timerol »

vuln wrote: post #20
timerol wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't characterize that as a bait-and-switch, but as adjusting to economic reality. When solar is <1% of penetration, a solar kWh is basically just as valuable as any other kWh. When solar gets over 10% of penetration, a solar kWh is worth much less than any other kWh - when the sun is shining, energy is plentiful. By the time you get to ~25% solar penetration, energy is almost free on a sunny day at noon, and m…

What’s “free” about maintaining the equipment or the cost of the equipment over time? The people that invested in installing solar still need to pay off the cost in order to break even. I guess they can eat the cost knowing that they’re saving the planet by giving away power they paid to harvest to a power company to profit off of.

You're misreading my comment a bit. It's only "free" on a sunny day at noon, because of the massive oversupply. The panels will make money, but at times when supply is lower, like after 2pm range. This depends on time-of-year as well.

Solar prices have been falling rapidly, so the value of a kWh of energy generated via solar has also been falling in competitive power generation markets.

Re: Global Solar Power Investment Will Top $1B per Day This Year

#28

Post by ftth_finland »

noughtme wrote: post #16
standardUser wrote: post #7

I get a little frustrated that all of the people who crapped all over solar power can now simply sit there quietly as it becomes a major component of electricity generation and pay no price for spreading anti-solar propaganda at such a historically critical juncture. I always found it particularly grotesque coming from the HN crowd, where an audience of mostly engineers and entrepreneurs seemed to have no problem fin…

> But the fanfare surrounding the phasing-out of coal and oil needs to be tempered with some realism… grid instability… investment in fossil fuel supply will rise by more than six percent… The article itself craps on solar.

How is this crapping on solar?

Re: Global Solar Power Investment Will Top $1B per Day This Year

#29

Post by jacquesm »

timerol wrote: post #13
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #8

Careful of the municipal utility bait and switch! Here in Idaho they recently adjusted the net metering credit to greatly decrease the value of solar energy. They waited until there was a lot of solar adoption in the state, and then pulled the rug on solar owners under the guise of “making sure everyone pays their fair share”

I wouldn't characterize that as a bait-and-switch, but as adjusting to economic reality. When solar is <1% of penetration, a solar kWh is basically just as valuable as any other kWh. When solar gets over 10% of penetration, a solar kWh is worth much less than any other kWh - when the sun is shining, energy is plentiful. By the time you get to ~25% solar penetration, energy is almost free on a sunny day at noon, and m…

Nonsense, until 100% of daytime generation is solar/wind every KW added still offsets generation from other sources. This myth is mostly perpetrated by the suppliers of power based on more expensive and more polluting sources who see the value of their investments slashed.

Re: Global Solar Power Investment Will Top $1B per Day This Year

#30

Post by jacquesm »

timerol wrote: post #27
vuln wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s “free” about maintaining the equipment or the cost of the equipment over time? The people that invested in installing solar still need to pay off the cost in order to break even. I guess they can eat the cost knowing that they’re saving the planet by giving away power they paid to harvest to a power company to profit off of.

You're misreading my comment a bit. It's only "free" on a sunny day at noon, because of the massive oversupply. The panels will make money, but at times when supply is lower, like after 2pm range. This depends on time-of-year as well. Solar prices have been falling rapidly, so the value of a kWh of energy generated via solar has also been falling in competitive power generation markets.

This only happens a very small fraction of the day, typically within an hour either side of solar noon. And if the voltage goes up too far inverters will typically back off either incrementally or by shutting down entirely.
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