I learned to use the Dvorak keyboard and was quickly as fast, and then faster than Querty. That's not what interesting. I felt like my brain was unencumbered with the additional motor control required of the Querty layout, resulting in improved memory and cognitive ability while I was typing. I would love to see this effect experimentally tested.
Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
81–90 of 244 posts
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably the best thing about Dvorak (and similar layouts) is that if you want to do proper touch typing, it is quite possibly easier to learn Dvorak than to learn how to touch type QWERTY. Touch typing QWERTY is a constant uphill battle of using your willpower to force yourself to type correctly, despite the rest of your brain claiming it isn't the optimal way to type on that layout. I don't know that your brain is…
This sounds very alluring but having to deal with setting up VIM in every environment or going to a new environment with VIM not set up sounds so painful. I imagine the native VIM bindings would be atrociously positioned in DVORAK
I use VIM on Dvorak, having [shift], [:;], [q] next to each other is awesome.
Having [a], [i], [y], [p], [x] all on the left hand is also awesome. It's a bummer that [d] is on the other hand, though I could reach it in a pinch with my left hand if I need to.
I don't need the fake QWERTY arrow keys, the real arrow keys work.
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#83As a Dvorak user (for 20 years now), I always say "I came for the speed benefits that never materialized, but stayed for the ergonomics (reduced strain)"
same here!
If I could go back, I would've learned colemak for the keyboard shortcut reasons people have outlined in other comments, but I don't have it in me to learn another layout at this point.
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#84I have switched to Dvorak only one year ago, after many decades of using QWERTY.
I consider this as one of my best decisions and my only regret is that I have not tried to do this many years earlier, because I had wrongly feared that typing Dvorak on a keyboard with QWERTY inscriptions might be a hindrance.
As many other posters have already said, the advantage of Dvorak is seldom a greater speed (and I needed a couple of months to recover the previous typing speed). The big advantage of Dvorak is a much greater comfort while typing. I will never go back to QWERTY.
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#85As someone who is expertly proficient in QWERTY since my teens, is it even possible to learnDVORAK and be proficient in both in an ambidextrous sort of way?
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Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably the best thing about Dvorak (and similar layouts) is that if you want to do proper touch typing, it is quite possibly easier to learn Dvorak than to learn how to touch type QWERTY. Touch typing QWERTY is a constant uphill battle of using your willpower to force yourself to type correctly, despite the rest of your brain claiming it isn't the optimal way to type on that layout. I don't know that your brain is…
This sounds very alluring but having to deal with setting up VIM in every environment or going to a new environment with VIM not set up sounds so painful. I imagine the native VIM bindings would be atrociously positioned in DVORAK
My vimrc has a specific section just for handling this:
"""""""""""" DVORAK FTW LOLZ! "
noremap d h
noremap h j
noremap t k
noremap n l
noremap k d
noremap l n
noremap j t
noremap ^Wd ^Wh
noremap ^Wh ^Wj
noremap ^Wt ^Wk
noremap ^Wn ^Wl
inoremap ^] ^[A
inoremap ð ^N
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#87As someone who is expertly proficient in QWERTY since my teens, is it even possible to learnDVORAK and be proficient in both in an ambidextrous sort of way?
Yes. When I switched to Dvorak (college, circa 2000 or 2001) my Qwerty speed dropped from around 60 to around 20, and Dvorak, after a couple months, was up to 60. Then 120. My Qwerty speed stayed low until I got a job where I didn't have full-control of all the computers I used (shared lab systems, didn't want to be rude and create confusion by adding a layout to them even if it was opt-in). At that point I was spending about half the day on my own work computer in Dvorak (still around 120 wpm) and half in Qwerty and my Qwerty speed went back to around 60-70.
If you don't want as big a delay (several years for me from when my Qwerty speed dropped to when it recovered), I'd suggest going "all in" on Dvorak for 3-6 months and then integrate some Qwerty time in deliberately to recover and then maintain your Qwerty proficiency.
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
"I think you are learning it wrong." Well, of course I did. I used a keyboard for many years before my formal middle school typing class and by then it was too late. My brain already knew better and typing exercises did no good because I already knew how to use the keyboard without looking. I imagine this is the dominant case. If you want to fix it, I recommend simply learning a sensible layout for touch typing. You…
I also took junior high typing in the 1980s, but we used manual typewriters. There were two IBM Selectrics in the back of the class that were used by lucky students for the day. I type with only the three inner index fingers of each hand, because the keys on the manual typewriters were hard to press. This limits my typing speed to 60wpm. If I used all four fingers, I could probably hit 90.
> I type with only the three inner index fingers of each hand
You have a lot of index fingers. Most people only have one per hand. ;)
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#89As a dvorak user, whatever increase in typing speed is mostly irrelevant, for most of us, our output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think. That being said, a long time ago I took an analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character onto dvorak and qwerty keyboards to produce heatmaps, and it's startling how much less the fingers have to move on a dvorak keyboard. So if you're lazy,…
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Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#90Anecdotally, I gave Dvorak a try and became somewhat proficient, but ultimately reverted back to QWERTY for one reason: keyboard shortcuts! Control-C|V|Z are all transformed into either two-handed shortcuts or right-handed shortcuts. In either case, I can't copy/paste while selecting text with the mouse (since I'm right-handed). I now use Colemak ( https://colemak.com/ ) which doesn't have this issue and I'm quite ha…
For Emacs controls, I found that Dvorak is not much of a problem after remapping it a tiny bit: (keyboard-translate ?\C-c ?\C-n) (keyboard-translate ?\C-h ?\C-c)
I ended up with the following[0]
(keyboard-translate ?\C-x ?\C-t)
(keyboard-translate ?\C-t ?\C-x)
(global-set-key
(kbd "C-t")
(lambda ()
(interactive)
(run-with-timer
0.3 nil
(lambda ()
;; Assuming these are the default values
(setq visible-bell nil)
(setq ring-bell-function 'ignore)))
(setq visible-bell t)
(setq ring-bell-function nil)
(error "Don't press that button.")))