As a Dvorak user (for 20 years now), I always say "I came for the speed benefits that never materialized, but stayed for the ergonomics (reduced strain)"
Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
61–70 of 244 posts
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#62As a dvorak user, whatever increase in typing speed is mostly irrelevant, for most of us, our output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think. That being said, a long time ago I took an analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character onto dvorak and qwerty keyboards to produce heatmaps, and it's startling how much less the fingers have to move on a dvorak keyboard. So if you're lazy,…
Are you able to have all your normal keyboards as dvorak? I have thought about trying to switch. But I use a few different keyboards in my day and it would be a real problem for other people if the keycaps didn't match what was on the keyboard. I also think my fingers would get confused about what letter is where when switching.
The best touch typing doesn't look at the keyboard at all, so it has more often felt like a benefit that the keys don't match what I type. (I sometimes feel like I should apologize to grade school teachers that tried to impart that lesson at too young an age to me when teaching QWERTY typing and I'd complain when they tried to block the keyboard from view.)
Having QWERTY key caps is even sometimes still useful for hunt and peck when an app (often a game) uses the wrong system library for keyboard input and is accidentally hard-coded to QWERTY input.
If other people need to use my computer it is very easy to set up profiles that default still to QWERTY or to temporarily shift to QWERTY for their interaction. (The default Windows shortcut key to switch between installed layouts is Left CTRL+SHIFT. It's very easy to switch to/from QWERTY with that quick shortcut.)
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#63As a dvorak user, whatever increase in typing speed is mostly irrelevant, for most of us, our output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think. That being said, a long time ago I took an analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character onto dvorak and qwerty keyboards to produce heatmaps, and it's startling how much less the fingers have to move on a dvorak keyboard. So if you're lazy,…
> output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think
It's hard to think while typing so the less time I spend typing the more time I have for thinking. Having said that I'm a qwerty user - it took me a lot of time (may be 100 hours) to learn touch typing and I don't have time to repeat the same with dvorak.
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#64I learned dvorak - I would have stuck with it if I didn't have to have other people use my computer - or use other peoples computers.
Qwerty is fast enough...
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#65With the rise of (split) mechanical keyboards as a hobby in its own right (with open source keyboard firmware like QMK and ZMK) it is much easier to make small tweaks to your layout as you find things which annoy you, so there seems to be a lot of experimentation going on right now with alternative layouts. I feel like I'm one of the last generation of Dvorak typers, anyone who cares about typing ergonomics learning…
I think there is immense value to being able to walk up to any computer, change the keyboard setting and being productive.
It's my lone complaint with Colemak is that Windows still doesn't include it out-of-the-box and needs it to be admin-installed from an MSI bundle that needs to be downloaded (or copied from a thumb drive). Every other modern OS includes it today (including iOS).
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#66As someone who is expertly proficient in QWERTY since my teens, is it even possible to learnDVORAK and be proficient in both in an ambidextrous sort of way?
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#67As a dvorak user, whatever increase in typing speed is mostly irrelevant, for most of us, our output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think. That being said, a long time ago I took an analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character onto dvorak and qwerty keyboards to produce heatmaps, and it's startling how much less the fingers have to move on a dvorak keyboard. So if you're lazy,…
> output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think It's hard to think while typing so the less time I spend typing the more time I have for thinking. Having said that I'm a qwerty user - it took me a lot of time (may be 100 hours) to learn touch typing and I don't have time to repeat the same with dvorak.
Same here, I learned how to touch type years before I heard about Dvorak and found it very difficult to switch so I'm still using qwerty.
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#68I used to use Dvorak exclusively.
Now I use a mix of Dvorak some of the time and QWERTY some of the time.
I have a Dvorak layout for the ErgoDox EZ Shine keyboard, link to repo below. There’s a PDF linked from the reademe in the repo showing what my Dvorak layout looks like.
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably the best thing about Dvorak (and similar layouts) is that if you want to do proper touch typing, it is quite possibly easier to learn Dvorak than to learn how to touch type QWERTY. Touch typing QWERTY is a constant uphill battle of using your willpower to force yourself to type correctly, despite the rest of your brain claiming it isn't the optimal way to type on that layout. I don't know that your brain is…
This sounds very alluring but having to deal with setting up VIM in every environment or going to a new environment with VIM not set up sounds so painful. I imagine the native VIM bindings would be atrociously positioned in DVORAK
Interestingly enough, the two vim bindings you probably use most, up/down (j/k) are actually positioned right next to each other on a dvorak keyboard. The rest take a bit of getting used to. You'd be surprised how natural vim feels on a dvorak keyboard.
Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a colemak user, I have the same flow. I used to have a keyboard that had blank keycaps, but that isn't kind to the rest of the family that uses the computer. :D Numbers, amusingly, can mess me up.
I have literally just learnt about colemak from these comments. I suffer from RSI and have tried Dvorak in the past, but as a qwerty touch typist found it too different. How long did it take you to learn colemak? I guess if you still use it you find it better than qwerty?
I honestly don't remember how long it took. I know it took a couple of tries, but when I went "all in" it didn't take long. My speed is still not fully up to where I was, but I haven't been trying to improve. Specifically, I got up to 70ish and then just stopped caring.
I'd hesitate to say I notice much of any difference. It makes me a little happy to have made the change. But, in the same way that moving a mouse to my off hand makes me happy. And is something I do every so often.