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SwiftData

developer.apple.com

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Re: SwiftData

#91
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common industry practice for iOS development is to support the most recent two major versions.

Yes, but why?

Guess I’ll have to say it.

It maximizes the user market. https://iosref.com/ios-usage

Losing a potential 10% of your market share because they’re 2 versions away is unquestionable for some companies.

Re: SwiftData

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but why?

Guess I’ll have to say it. It maximizes the user market. https://iosref.com/ios-usage Losing a potential 10% of your market share because they’re 2 versions away is unquestionable for some companies.

That chart doesn’t say you lose 10% of your market share.

It only says that 10% of your users can’t upgrade to the latest version of your app, which is a totally different proposition.

You say for some companies, this is unacceptable, which is obviously true.

It’s not obviously true for a lot of companies, so it’s worth questioning whether this is just a dogma that is handicapping developers and slowing progress in many cases.

Re: SwiftData

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess I’ll have to say it. It maximizes the user market. https://iosref.com/ios-usage Losing a potential 10% of your market share because they’re 2 versions away is unquestionable for some companies.

That chart doesn’t say you lose 10% of your market share. It only says that 10% of your users can’t upgrade to the latest version of your app, which is a totally different proposition. You say for some companies, this is unacceptable, which is obviously true. It’s not obviously true for a lot of companies, so it’s worth questioning whether this is just a dogma that is handicapping developers and slowing progress in m…

It’s obviously not black and white. I’ve worked on bigger, more mature, products where not giving all users access to the latest features was unacceptable. And I’ve work on products where dropping an old version early only impacted like 2 users and it was acceptable. And big companies where it was okay to let ild versions lag because the model and api layer was super stable. Ultimately it’s a product decision not some unquestionable dogma and there no reason engineering can’t contribute to the discussion. It just turns out that the last two major versions is a good rule of thumb for most scenarios. It works very well in practice.

Re: SwiftData

#94
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common industry practice for iOS development is to support the most recent two major versions.

Yes, but why?

If you're a business with a consumer facing app, you don't want to exclude 5% or 10% of your users. Most of the client projects I've worked on had a requirement to support iOS(-4) which is super painful from a development standpoint and usually the number of users on a device with iOS four versions old are in the range of 2%. But I get that it's tough for a financial institution or a streaming media company or a telco to exclude potentially 2% of users.

Re: SwiftData

#95

Sync really needs to be a feature of the web platform. A web app should be able to ask the user to sync its data accross devices. There's no reason you should have to worry about sync and authentication when you make an offline first web app.

Er, how would that even work? Apple can sync over iCloud. What are Firefox users going to sync over?

Obviously the browser has to provide this backend. Browsers already sync passwords, history, bookmarks, extension data, they should offer sync as a feature for the web app as well.

Re: SwiftData

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess I’ll have to say it. It maximizes the user market. https://iosref.com/ios-usage Losing a potential 10% of your market share because they’re 2 versions away is unquestionable for some companies.

That chart doesn’t say you lose 10% of your market share. It only says that 10% of your users can’t upgrade to the latest version of your app, which is a totally different proposition. You say for some companies, this is unacceptable, which is obviously true. It’s not obviously true for a lot of companies, so it’s worth questioning whether this is just a dogma that is handicapping developers and slowing progress in m…

I agree that truthfully we're not talking about excluding those users, but only preventing those users from upgrading to the latest version of the app. But for lots of businesses those two things are viewed as effectively the same, because they believe they are adding value to the new version of the app that will result in greater user stickiness and direct or indirect revenue opportunities.

Honestly I'm thrilled anytime I'm working for a client that has a iOS(-2) rule versus an iOS(-4) rule.

Re: SwiftData

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er, how would that even work? Apple can sync over iCloud. What are Firefox users going to sync over?

Obviously the browser has to provide this backend. Browsers already sync passwords, history, bookmarks, extension data, they should offer sync as a feature for the web app as well.

That's fine but then it's not really a feature of the web... it's a browser feature. You are totally locked into that browser.

Compare to browser bookmarks. Not a "web feature".

Re: SwiftData

#98
This is made possible by Swift macros, which also will make migration easier.

I can imagine starting out with SwiftData @Model's, but then redefining the @Model macro to work with another backend -- even deploying the same models to different backends on different platforms (e.g., CoreData on iOS and MySQL on Linux).

"API-compatible" now includes attributes. This could be a great opportunity for alternatives to the CoreData stack.

Re: SwiftData

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess I’ll have to say it. It maximizes the user market. https://iosref.com/ios-usage Losing a potential 10% of your market share because they’re 2 versions away is unquestionable for some companies.

That chart doesn’t say you lose 10% of your market share. It only says that 10% of your users can’t upgrade to the latest version of your app, which is a totally different proposition. You say for some companies, this is unacceptable, which is obviously true. It’s not obviously true for a lot of companies, so it’s worth questioning whether this is just a dogma that is handicapping developers and slowing progress in m…

Figured you were questioning dogma, so I also wanted to continue the conversation explicitly.

Re: SwiftData

#100
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an alternative that offers longer? Apple do seem to be shortening a bit, but as an app developer, we generally support iOS 2 versions behind unless there’s a particularly good feature we want to add to our workflow. I don’t see much of interest to us in 17, I’m surprised there weren’t any major updates to arkit considering the announcement of Vision Pro

Samsung is ca on par or slightly worse (depends what year you are looking at), but it’s hard to compare because Android updates are more fine grained and can partially be done without releasing the whole OS. With Samsung you at least know how many releases you‘ll get and how many years of security updates a phone is good for. And afterwards you might be able to put Ubuntu or Lineage on it. I think, as a dev, it’s rea…

I had a look at a bunch of the big Samsung releases from 2019 and 2020. Some got updates 2 or 3 years later, and a few got no updates at all.

Jetpack is cool, but the reason it exists is because the Android OS update picture is appalling. Anyway it doesn’t really address security updates.

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