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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#561

Post by sanderjd »

brookst wrote: post #487
lm28469 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> however when was the last time you walked into a room where at least one person wasn't solely focused on their phone. Do we want more of that ?

Does it matter what “we” want? If you want to use your phone less, use your phone less. Complaining about how other people use their phones “too much” is just kids-these-days.

Yes, it does matter what "we" want. This is how society and culture works, by people debating what's good and what isn't good, and deciding to regulate some of the things that really aren't good through law, and "regulate" other things that aren't good through cultural norms.

Within my circles, the "regulation" of not having everyone on their phones constantly in social settings has been slowly but surely taking root for years. And that's a good thing. I hope (and believe) the same will be true of these headsets.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#562

Post by portpecos »

dointheatl wrote: post #554
lolinder wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the ancient man living in the woods is absolutely right about cities—a person in a concrete jungle is dangerously isolated from reality. We know the negative effects of too little sunlight, we know the positive effects of exposure to nature. We know the negative environmental effects of the infrastructure that makes the concrete jungle possible, but those effects are invisible to the resident of th…

> Also, it's pretty clear that cities are too large for our social apparatus Citation needed? Humans have been living in cities for thousands of years.

At an extraordinary cost to human health. Sewage problems spread disease. Malnourishment due to only eating bread. The average height of a Paleolithic man far exceeded the height of a Neolithic man.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#563

Post by cubefox »

acdha wrote: post #312
crummy wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was MKBHD who seems to know his stuff

How many industrial design projects has he done, though? He doesn’t have any particular expertise in the area so while it’s fair to ask why they picked the trade-offs they did, it’s pretty far-fetched to think one of the best industrial design teams in the world forgot about a primary success factor, especially given how much other effort they made to hit weight targets. Absent someone who’s actually worked in the fi…

There are other headsets without metal frame, so we pretty much know this is not necessary. And we also know with certainty that metal absolutely isn't necessary for laptop cases, but Apple still uses metal. The explanation is easy: aesthetics, feel, "haptics".

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#564

Post by lewisflude »

ganesh7 wrote: post #430

Every day another submission about these goggles nobody seems to like. I'm just annoyed by all that unwarranted attention. Just because it's Apple.

Anecdotally I like them, and not just because it's Apple, seems like great hardware/software/industrial design etc.

But valid to be annoyed at it, Apple do tend to be quite polarising for people.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#565

Post by whywhywhywhy »

MikaEfrat wrote: post #521
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #468

Hit me this morning they never showed anyone working with files. Can’t believe after the failed attempts to kill files on iPhone and iPad they’ve learned nothing and still think we can pretend a professional work tool can exist without a proper file system. Not saying it should have desktop icons strewn across your living room, just that the “files siloed in apps transferring via share buttons” iPad model is objectiv…

One of the WWDC developer videos shows the Files app icon around 10 minutes in: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10203/

Files app is a crutch and a band aid to solve the problem of not building a file centric interface to begin with.

If it's anything like iOS/iPadOS it just doesn't work for getting work done or keeping projects organized, buildable upon and sane.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#566

Post by cubefox »

criddell wrote: post #153
cubefox wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People generally agree that VR games are miles ahead of ordinary games in terms of immersion. The adoption problem seems to be that there is no affordable VR console with a lot of big exclusive games. The Meta Quest comes close to a decent price point, but there aren't many publishers making elaborate games for it. A chicken/egg situation with regards to adoption and game investment. Basically, a Game Boy or Switch f…

> there is no affordable VR console with a lot of big exclusive games What is even more impressive is when a VR version of a big, popular game is the best version of that game. Affordability is somewhat relative. If something is truly compelling, people will spend a lot of money to get it.

I don't think that price can always be outweighed by other factors. Successful game consoles are always pretty cheap. Only productivity devices can ask for a high price.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#567

Post by Lolaccount »

kcmastrpc wrote: post #441
Lolaccount wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fifth? ... You mean like the $100 iPhone they're about to release?!

cognitive dissonance is real. what is the totl retail now days? like $1500?

I know! ... my guess is the price will stay the same for the Pro version for a long time ... released with a lower spec slightly cheaper version ...

Then they'll keep adding features to justify the price ...

Then after a few years, the price will start creeping higher and higher.

And then, when the implanted-AI version comes out, it'll be $15,000 for Pro Pro AI Max version ...

"Literally Think Different!"

/only semi-joking ... this was basically the iPhone playbook and why wouldn't it be applied to the Vision?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#568

Post by cubefox »

MR4D wrote: post #431
esskay wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this is where lack of controllers is going to be an issue. I guess you could use a PS/Xbox controller but then you may as well be playing on a pc. I get why they didn't want to go the controller route, but they'll surely be very aware that it greatly limits what can be done with games.

They never said you can’t use a controller. Remember, the iPad doesn’t come with a controller, but you can use a Pencil with it if you want. Same thing will likely happen with the Vision products.

The point is that most games would probably need a special VR controller (not a normal one!), unless they can be played point&click style. But Apple won't include them, so the respective games won't be made in the first place. There aren't even smartphone games which require external controllers, despite the install base of smartphones being orders of magnitude higher than what the sales numbers for the Vision Pro headset will be.

Moreover, making elaborate games like civilization wouldn't be economically feasible even if they could be appropriately controlled by default. The price for the headset is so high that not many people will buy it. Then elaborate games can't sell enough copies in order to be profitable. For example, it seems unlikely that even a success like Half Life Alyx made its development cost back. The hardware install base is too small.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#569

Post by lern_too_spel »

jstanley wrote: post #494
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

No, this idea was stupid when Zuckerberg promoted it, and it's still stupid with Cook promoting it. VR goggles are a dead end. Invisible VR or AR has lots of applications, but the technology is years away.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#570

Post by cubefox »

motoxpro wrote: post #249
eclipxe wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a billion dollar business.

VR games? Sure gaming, but I didn't know VR games specifically made so much money. Either way, if I was gaming, playing a new single player 2D (Last of Us, etc) game on a MASSIVE screen on the Vision Pro seems so exciting. Beat Saber and throwing my hands around? Not so much.

But Beat Saber would be more exciting, despite seemings.
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