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Notes on Vision Pro

notes.andymatuschak.org

531–540 of 700 posts

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine putting a CPU as complicated as the M2 in between my eyeballs and the road. It is too big and complicated. I guess we don’t really know what the R1 does. It is hypothetically possible that there’s a failsafe road-eyeball path just goes through that chip, maybe that could be made as reliable as various other critical computers…

It's not as failsafe as glass. I guarantee you Mercedes or Lamborghini would _love_ to have a fully enclosed interior with screens instead of windows, but it's a critical safety feature and anything that makes it less likely to work is just not happening.

Wasn’t there a vampire movie maybe fifteen years ago, where the vampires drove fully enclosed cars via camera during the day? Daybreakers?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#532
post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

Weren’t they trying to sell high priced virtual real estate in the metaverse next to snoop dog? Would decor not be monetized just like skins and items in gaming?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#533
post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

It'll become accepted I'm sure, if it breaks through; could anyone have imagined walking into a living room 30 years ago [0] and seeing everyone hunched over a phone? Or 80 years ago and seeing everyone around a television? I mean I get what you mean, but I also think that some things get normalized in subsequent generations. Our 15 year old and his gf have their phones out at all times, frequently switching to inter…

> Our 15 year old and his gf have their phones out at all times, frequently switching to interacting, glancing at random videos, messaging, games, etc.

Yes, and this is a bad thing.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#534
post #244
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I sincerely doubt a double-digit percentage of Apple employees have touched and android phone or used OpenAI APIs I strongly doubt you're right. Apple is full of geeks; just because they tend to be tight-lipped doesn't mean they aren't paying attention to all the same stuff we are.

Double digit? I live walking distance to Apple HQ and there’s not exactly a lot of people in the shops and cafes with Android phones and you practically never see someone pulling out Google pay at a register. Whereas I’d wager more than half of Google employees use iPhone, and a lot of Google staff work exclusively on iOS and Mac apps. Apple software runs in their hardware, period. It makes them too insular and unabl…

The question was whether they’ve touched an Android phone, not whether they use them regularly.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> could anyone have imagined walking into a living room 30 years ago and seeing everyone hunched over a phone? True, but I don't recall smartphones ever being unveiled with promotional videos of people all being hunched over them at dinner. Smartphones were promoted by enabling us to do things on the go: making and receiving phone calls, getting directions, finding restaurants in the area. This is why this feels diff…

I’m confused. Are we judging a product category based on how it’s promoted, or how it’s used? I don’t think my opinion of smartphones would be any different if early promotions had shown the downsides, or bigger upsides, or bizarre and unrealistic scenarios. Am I wrong to be anchored on how they’re actually used, which literally nobody foresaw?

We're judging it based on the vision for how it will be used, as evidenced through its initial promotion.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#536
I dig his vision of huge, persistent infospaces after all the "method of loci" [0] is a very effective and well described mnemonic device at least since antiquity.

The basic observation: It takes very little effort and exposure to remember places (spatial information) in contrast to taking in linear heavy processed information from writing and numbers (e.g. "facts").

Combine these two and you have a powerful way navigating through the information space itself.

If you look at it, we are confined to rectangular boxes, fancy interactive books enhanced by moving pictures, audio and some very limited tactile feedback but nevertheless bound by the superstructure of a static tiny detail in our overall spatial awareness.

Of course we are now so used to the endless iterations of rectangular boxes that we are extraordinarily proficient at extracting a lot of richness/information from that: in scrolling, clicking, typing, imagining ... I'm reminded by the scene of "The Matrix" where Cipher let Neo glimpse the Matrix code on his screens: "You get used to it, I don't even see the code. All I see is blond, brunette, redhead."[1]

IIRC once a 50s western movie was shown to a rural "test" public from the Eurasian steppe some of who saw a moving picture for the very first time. The reactions were mostly enthusiastic during slow "panorama shots" but the audience reacted very agitated in "close-ups" or "medium shots" where e.g. in the heat of the action the horse's legs were "cut off".

We take it as given that we learn the language of movies and find them at times 'realistic' and 'immersive' when in fact contrasted to 'reality' itself qbit by qbit they are basically - with some rounding error - as highly processed as books and thereby rely heavily on our imagination filling the gaps.

While we are on the subject of of naïve visions, another area which isn't appreciated enough imho is the immense dexterity of our hands as with "vision processing" the devices themselves are glued on our dexterity of "exact" and "repetitive" moves, there is too little wiggle room for organic experimenting, refining and expression like one would naturally do for a musical instrument.

[0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci

[1]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MvEXkd3O2ow

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#537
To me, Apple Vision vision's, so-called spacial computing, is exactly what I was always looking for in a portable computing device: beefy processor, pixeless experience, app and file navigation using natural eyes and hands movement. This has the potential of replacing all desktop, laptop and tablet I may own.

Now I just have to wait for a Linux compatible version.

Because there's no way I'm gonna use any Apple software as if it was twenty five years ago, before iTunes insanities and whatever happened since. NFW.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#538
post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

I agree with you, not sure why they included that use case in the demo. It would have been better done if the dad recorded the 3d video with iPhone depth sensors (possible?) and replayed it later in VR.

I really like my Quest 2. But these devices are for when you are alone. I work alone and would love to use something that expands my workspace and provides a comfortable environment to concentrate in. Quest 2 can't really get there. And occasionally I find people to talk to in VR which is enjoyable. But when the family is home it makes 0 sense. I cannot imagine us all sitting in an empty room with goggles on, watching the same thing.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so: it's just another VR headset, just beefier. Have you not been paying attention to Meta's Quest and the like? Modern VR headsets are computers, they run their own OS, with applications/games loaded onto the device itself, and they can be used as a VR display client for other operating systems. This is an M2 computer strapped to your head: it can bloody well do VR, let's see what folks do with this device th…

Quest Pro owner[1]: it's "a total waste of money", "embarassing how much of an unpolished piece of garbage it feels like", it's "a steaming pile of trash", "infuriating", "buggy", "janky". MKBHD on the Vision Pro: better image passthrough, better responsiveness, better hand tracking, better eye tracking, better image quality than any other headset he's ever used. You: "overpriced hardware". No, better hardware. [1] h…

Something can be both "more expensive because it's better" and "overpriced" at the same time. Those two are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#540
post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

I would argue that the ancient man living in the woods is absolutely right about cities—a person in a concrete jungle is dangerously isolated from reality. We know the negative effects of too little sunlight, we know the positive effects of exposure to nature. We know the negative environmental effects of the infrastructure that makes the concrete jungle possible, but those effects are invisible to the resident of the jungle.

Also, it's pretty clear that cities are too large for our social apparatus. The ancient man living in a tribe has a deeper personal connection with his fellow villagers than anything we develop in a city, much less in the worldwide city we call the internet.

Given all that, I think it's reasonable to take a backwards-looking approach to this. Evolution happens on the time scale of millennia, and our biology has had only had a few hundred years to adjust to the modern city. Rushing headlong along the same path into full, always-connected VR is hazardous.

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