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Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

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Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#111

Post by microtonal »

nailer wrote: post #57
microtonal wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it uses Wine, but the Direct3D API is handled by the proprietary D3DMetal framework, which implements Direct3D on top of Metal. This is different than CodeWeaver's CrossOver approach, which uses Wine's DirectX-on-Vulkan implementation and then MoltenVK to run Vulkan on Metal. So, it is not just Wine. It is Wine plus a large proprietary Apple Framework that has most of the Direct3D magic sauce.

Thanks for the info! I think a couple of us in this thread may be arguing cross purposes - I want to ensure that codeweavers gets credit for their open source contributions and you want to ensure technical accuracy. These are both good goals and don’t conflict with each other.

Yeah, definitely! All of this wouldn't be possible without the Wine project and CodeWeavers.

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#113

Post by Hamuko »

radicalbyte wrote: post #36
gilgoomesh wrote: post #6

Keep in mind, it's getting 15fps at 1440x900. It's not saying that Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 is a great experience. It's merely pointing out that it's technically possible (which is a massive achievement).

I'm not sure - Apple's marketing claimed that the M1 was beating top end PC parts. This isn't even close.

What, in playing Windows games with translated DirectX and amd64 calls?

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#114

Post by PinkiesBrain »

mort96 wrote: post #108
PinkiesBrain wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can weaponize it against Valve. Helping displace steam for relatively little effort bumped it up in priority.

Is it faster to build it to weaponize it against Valve than it is to build it without the weaponization?

There's only so much developer time and management focus. "This will help us cement our monopoly on software distribution without being too obvious to regulators" is a good pitch.

PS. I'm sure the people who pitched it and their managers are all sufficiently skilled at lying and lying to themselves to not put it or even think in those terms.

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#115

Post by joeman1000 »

ece wrote: post #98
atgctg wrote: post #8

Running at ~40 fps on M2 Max: https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/1435ukq/cyberpun...

So, you need to spend $3k to get playable framerates, which are possible with a 3060 laptop, maybe even a 3050ti, as they can do 1080p, this just seems to be 900p.

Yes, but then you have a gaming laptop...

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#116

Post by Applejinx »

Version467 wrote: post #17

This is the entry level M1. 15fps at 1400x900 isn't great (or even playable), but it's very impressive that it runs at all without any changes, let alone on ultra settings.

Yes, thank you. I mean, let's have a bit of context.

I'm Mac based (well, my computing is, I'm still biological ;) ) and I took an interest in what's happening in the AI space. Knowing that RAM and CPU would be bottlenecks but that there would be open source ways to run stuff, I got a Mac Studio, which is M1 Ultra and 128G of RAM, which then becomes also GPU RAM because on M1 the architecture is like that.

So I'm able to do AI stuff up to the heavy-lifting stuff (still steadily downloading LLaMA data on my old DSL, but I've got everything but 65B and have run 7B, 13B and 30B without issue, and of course I'm having no trouble running Stable Diffusion stuff)

If a basic laptop with just an M1 and laptop amounts of RAM can do 15 fps at 1400x900, my 20-core M1 Ultra with 128G of RAM ought to do at least that at 3840x1600 on my big ol' curved monitor. And at that point it starts acting like the PC gamer experience, except at no point did I set out to make a gamer-specific system. The whole thing was put together to serve very much other purposes, and retains usefulness for those purposes.

I'm sure I can tolerate pleb tier 30 fps or not being on Ultra settings or something, to get performance that's very similar to decent gaming rigs on games designed for Windows PCs, on a machine I got to serve entirely other purposes.

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#117

Post by SleepyMyroslav »

aurareturn wrote: post #105
SleepyMyroslav wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It shows that Apple wants AAA games on Macs. Why do you think that ? I am asking as someone who is working in gamedev. Game industry got burned by some big company recently when multi year efforts were spent porting 3d stacks and the target platform got axed.

> Why do you think that ? I am asking as someone who is working in gamedev. They built Game Porting Toolkit.

The toolkit is not part of Apple platform apparently. It is a development tool that can be used to evaluate porting no more no less. I see no changes in the platform itself.

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#118

Post by o1y32 »

Const-me wrote: post #95
yreg wrote: post #34

As John Siracusa discussed on this week's ATP[0], it's incredible how much effort Apple puts into this considering the result. Apple built it's own little parallel gaming stack world that works really well on their hardware and the hardware is also amazing for the power envelopes it is wrapped in. But then Apple doesn't ship devices with actually powerful GPUs, so it can never compete with the gaming PCs which are fa…

These GPUs aren’t too bad. Theoretically, M2 Max peaks at 14.4 teraflops, and 400 GB/s memory bandwidth. M2 Ultra is too new, but Apple says it’s GPU is 30% faster (probably 18.7 teraflops then?), and that it has 800 GB/s memory bandwidth. The numbers for M2 Ultra are comparable to some powerful GPUs. The theoretical TFlops number is close to Radeon 6900 XT and GeForce 3070, theoretical memory bandwidth is close to R…

Practically speaking a $300 (often sold at $250) Xbox Series S would provide a much better gaming experience than this.

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#119

Post by bouk »

GeekyBear wrote: post #32
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On iPad they would need their controls redone; it's possible, but an extra step. I'm also getting the feeling the ipad is quickly running out of favor, I haven't seen one in ages except on my parents' dinner table.

You can pair your XBox or Playstation controller with an iPad.

Also keyboard and mouse!

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#120

Post by o1y32 »

ece wrote: post #98
atgctg wrote: post #8

Running at ~40 fps on M2 Max: https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/1435ukq/cyberpun...

So, you need to spend $3k to get playable framerates, which are possible with a 3060 laptop, maybe even a 3050ti, as they can do 1080p, this just seems to be 900p.

Actually you can play these games with Xbox Series S at 1440p easily. I wonder if people would just simply buy a game console (if they don't already have one) for the more demanding titles. Most people don't need a processor that is nearly as powerful as M1 Max, and I doubt anyone is going to spend extra money on a computer just for its GPU that doesn't even play games as well as a $300 console.
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