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US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

reuters.com

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Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#401

Post by lmm »

arcticbull wrote: post #398
lmm wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So far it seems like the SEC is ruling and enforcing the above cases, clear cut cases. If you have a part of the current enforcement that is on something that is ambiguous rather than pretty clear cut then I would be interested what makes it ambiguous and potentially reading more into it. This article is in significant part about the SEC going after Coinbase, which made a significant effort to stay on the right sid…

> ... which made a significant effort to stay on the right side of the rules and only allow crypto tokens that operated in ways that are closely analogous to e.g. frequent flier miles. They list ICOs by the fistful. I sorted alphabetically and only had to go as far as AAVE to find the first obviously-a-security. They really didn't try and stay on the right side of anything. Frequent flyer miles are generally consider…

> There's no investment of money (they're a rebate on a purchase)

Seems pretty dubious when there are well-documented cases of the miles being worth a lot more than the purchase (from the famous pudding guy onwards). Hell, mine explicitly advertises the option to "buy miles".

> there's no common enterprise, there's no expectation of profit derived from the efforts of others

Miles become more or less valuable depending on how well the airline is doing, exactly like how these tokens tend to go.

> Not to mention you don't own your frequent flyer miles, the airline program does.

The whole point of Howey is that the details of the ownership structure don't matter, the overall economic effect is what does.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#402

Post by thesausageking »

thisgoesnowhere wrote: post #301
thesausageking wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true, then why did the SEC approve Coinbase's IPO and not doing anything about it until years later? Even in spite of Coinbase meeting with the SEC hundreds of times and testifying before congress. This is a complete change in their stance by the SEC.

Because the SECs role in IPOs have nothing to do with wether or not you are breaking securities law. They are just testing that you are not lying in your public financial declarations.

You're saying that the SEC knowingly allowed Coinbase to become a public company, have insiders dump billions in stock on the public, and then continue to operate a completely illegal business for another 2 years without taking any action at all? Not even issuing any guidance which Coinbase requested from them dozens of times?

If so, that would be a huge scandal and the SEC should be investigated immediately.

A much simpler explanation is that crypto was largely ignored by regulators, including the very shady parts like FTX, for most of Coinbase's life. When FTX imploded, lawmakers turned on crypto and put pressure on the SEC to attack the industry. This is why there's been a whole series of actions by them in the last 6 months.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#403

Post by twelve40 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #162
this_user wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more a case that anyone who was involved in crypto early, and who has actually taken the time to understand the technology, has realised about a decade ago that crypto currencies are mostly useless. But then people had they idea that they could still make money from it by grifting people if they just added layer upon layer of complexity in order to disguise the ultimate uselessness of the underlying tech…

> I think it's more a case that anyone who was involved in crypto early, and who has actually taken the time to understand the technology, has realised about a decade ago that crypto currencies are mostly useless. I don't know what it is about crypto that makes HN commentators want to make the most ridiculous, put-downy statements without evidence to back it up. Crypto is not mostly useless, it is just that people do…

> crypto is absolutely massive for avoiding capital controls in countries with inflation, etc

etc doing some heavy lifting here. The article is about US-based crypto company. How is your list of massive uses applicable to US specifically? (I actually have sympathy for coinbase for at least trying to follow some rules)

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#404

Post by x86x87 »

thot_experiment wrote: post #321
x86x87 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah. Protecting investors. What a bunch of croc. This was never about protecting investors. If it was they would have issues the guidance 5 years ago. This is about blowing up crypto in general by removing the on/off ramps (ie the exchanges). Also: mandatory crypto is bad for the environment and it consumes more power than the whole country of Argentina! /s But nobody seems to care or talk about how much power crapGP…

Deep learning actually provides something of value now, and the training is in service of seeing if maybe it could do better in the future. Crypto provides a way to part fools from their money, and a way to circumvent financial laws. Yes, I get that there's "value" to circumventing sanctions and whatnot, but that's the same sort of value as making people phone you to cancel a subscription or optimizing CTR on an ad o…

lol. value for whom? deep learning just serves the interests of the owners, the corporations and the 1%.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#405

Post by Demmme »

esonoi wrote: post #365
Demmme wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read them and concluded that Bitcoin fits currency very well. While googling those terms I also found that gold is defined as a currency in the open market. I'm pretty sure the us sec will figure it out for us

Gold is not a currency, it is a commodity that is similar enough to a currency (meaning it can substitute as a currency). ISO 4217 includes precious metals that it explicitly states are not currencies. Currencies do not exist outside a monetary system. If I sell you something, and accept skittles as payment, that does not make skittles a currency.

And iso 42... Can't be adjusted for Bitcoin?

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#406

Post by donedeals »

thesausageking wrote: post #402
thisgoesnowhere wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the SECs role in IPOs have nothing to do with wether or not you are breaking securities law. They are just testing that you are not lying in your public financial declarations.

You're saying that the SEC knowingly allowed Coinbase to become a public company, have insiders dump billions in stock on the public, and then continue to operate a completely illegal business for another 2 years without taking any action at all? Not even issuing any guidance which Coinbase requested from them dozens of times? If so, that would be a huge scandal and the SEC should be investigated immediately. A much…

Typically IPO approvals include a carve out that says this approval cannot bed used a defense in a SEC action. CB will still use it as an argument.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#407

Post by Sargos »

paulpauper wrote: post #36

Crypto is like the worst investment ever: huge legal risk, does not hedge inflation, not a safeguard in crisis, does not benefit from tech/ai boom, does not generate profits. Only downside, no upside, no strengths, only weaknesses. the chart is only one direction: down The obvious weakness of bitcoin relative to QQQ demonstrates this. A daytrading pair trade method that shorts Bitcoin in market hours and goes long qq…

> Who goes against the fed. government and wins? big tobacco couldn't do it. neither could the auto industry.

Drugs won the war on drugs. Prohibition is another infamous failure. When the government tries to attack a decentralized commodity valued by the people it always loses.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#408

Post by [deleted] »

jpadkins wrote: post #395
mulmen wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the hangup with BTC as a commodity is that I can make a loaf of bread with wheat and eat it and the amount of wheat in the world is depleted as a result. Similarly I can use gold to build a cell phone or some jewelry and while it is possible to recover it isn't as simple as trading BTC. How is a BTC consumed ?

shaping gold into jewelry doesn't consume it. One of the reasons its been currency for 5k years is because you can melt it down and re-use it as coins or other jewelry etc. Gold isn't consumed, for the most part.

[deleted]

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#410

Post by kobasa »

acdha wrote: post #373
whimsicalism wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's more a case that anyone who was involved in crypto early, and who has actually taken the time to understand the technology, has realised about a decade ago that crypto currencies are mostly useless. I don't know what it is about crypto that makes HN commentators want to make the most ridiculous, put-downy statements without evidence to back it up. Crypto is not mostly useless, it is just that people do…

> I don't know what it is about crypto that makes HN commentators want to make the most ridiculous, put-downy statements without evidence to back it up. HN has many people who understand how technology work and a smaller but still large number of people who understand economics. Cryptocurrency has a few people like that but also a ton of get-rich-quick types who think their best work is making random claims until som…

>Cryptocurrency has a few people like that but also a ton of get-rich-quick types

There are literally hundreds of millions of people who're into cryptocurrencies...and you clearly don't have a clue what kind of people are into it and to what degree. I'd suggest not to make up statements like this if you want your opinion to be taken seriously. FYI bypassing capital controls with cryptos does not necessarily mean "breaking the law". Learn a thing or two if you're going to spout nonsense.

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