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US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

theguardian.com

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Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#451

Post by osigurdson »

glenstein wrote: post #427
eek2121 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am usually one to treat EVERYTHING with a very healthy dose of skepticism, but who are any of us to say what is possible or what is not? I'm sure that a century ago, space was just something we would never reach. The US Military released rather intriguing, yet unexplained videos of objects outmaneuvering our top jets. You should go check those out. I've yet to see an explanation that covers all the data those jets…

>but who are any of us to say what is possible or what is not? This is the tragic sentence which is letting the parade of carnival animals in through the back door. In some sense it's true that intellectual humility is necessary as we allow ourselves to be challenged by ideas we thought not possible. But it's true the way hallmark card quotes are true, as vague generalities. It does no work as a specific response to…

If the problem is not outside the bounds of known physics, then it should be considered plausible.

Otherwise, it is certainly not impossible, but pointless to speculate. If you enjoy speculating about such things, fill your boots, but realize that you are only doing it for your own amusement.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#452

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

themoonisachees wrote: post #391
whiddershins wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me some evidence for how other countries have produced greater wealth for “the group” than the “selfish US.”

Wealth inequality in the US today is worse than France right before the revolution. The US is a great country to go to if you're already rich.

Three years ago I came to Florida without a nickel in my pocket. Now I've got a nickel in my pocket.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#453

Post by nonethewiser »

Octokiddie wrote: post #443

Zero specific claims. Zero evidence examined by the person making the allegations. All hearsay. To top it off, the focus of the story, David Charles Grusch, is a "a former intelligence official." Pardom me for disregarding this as the diversion it appears to be. The US military has quite a track record on this kind of thing. It's not hard to think of reasons why such diversions might be deployed right now, either. Ma…

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#454

Post by tialaramex »

eek2121 wrote: post #387
tialaramex wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also people who don't understand what is or is not possible easily get confused about what is impossible / difficult versus possible / easy. My guess is that a substantial fraction of otherwise competent American adults don't realise VTOL jet aircraft are a thing we can and have built for example, and that if one of them saw a prototype like the Flying Bedstead (Rolls Royce experimental platform, which doesn't look a…

I am usually one to treat EVERYTHING with a very healthy dose of skepticism, but who are any of us to say what is possible or what is not? I'm sure that a century ago, space was just something we would never reach. The US Military released rather intriguing, yet unexplained videos of objects outmaneuvering our top jets. You should go check those out. I've yet to see an explanation that covers all the data those jets…

You're sure that in 1923, space was "something we would never reach"? That's about ten years before a German guy starts his work on liquid rocket fuel technology, work that will (via a Nazi terror weapon) go on to result in the US manned space programme.

If you said 1823 maybe I could sympathise, in 1823 they don't have everything together, they don't know about the Noble gases or dozens of other elements, they thought atoms were indivisible (hence the name), they don't have the First Network (the Universal Postal Union, yes, in 1823 you could not write a letter in say, Edinburgh, write an address in Berlin, and just post it, that idea hadn't been invented yet).

But by 1923 they're in a much better place. Their atomic model is still wrong but it's like the model you're probably picturing in your head, the one where electrons are little whizzy balls orbiting a nucleus. Wrong, but not wrong enough to cause big problems for everyday purposes. Kurt Gödel hasn't come up with his clever trick yet, but the problem is right there and people are thinking about it.

You say the videos are objects but I don't see evidence of objects. Just because you see a shape doesn't mean you saw an object. Did you know shadows can move faster than the speed of light? Because you see a shadow isn't a thing, it's just our mental model of events, and there are no limits on that model. We have plenty of ways to make a shape seem to move much faster than we can make an object move.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#455

Post by twobitshifter »

allenrb wrote: post #426

I would very much like to believe, but… no doubt we’ve all heard the crackpot theories that we (speaking as a US citizen) faked the moon landings. That’s nonsense for all sorts of reasons, but one of my favorites is this: It would literally be easier to build giant machines using 1960s technology to land people on the moon and return them safely than it would be to keep a secret like “fake moon landings”. Now imagine…

If these are a recent phenomenon and not the flying saucers of the past, the secret may have not been kept long.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#456

Post by ivlad »

eek2121 wrote: post #387
tialaramex wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also people who don't understand what is or is not possible easily get confused about what is impossible / difficult versus possible / easy. My guess is that a substantial fraction of otherwise competent American adults don't realise VTOL jet aircraft are a thing we can and have built for example, and that if one of them saw a prototype like the Flying Bedstead (Rolls Royce experimental platform, which doesn't look a…

I am usually one to treat EVERYTHING with a very healthy dose of skepticism, but who are any of us to say what is possible or what is not? I'm sure that a century ago, space was just something we would never reach. The US Military released rather intriguing, yet unexplained videos of objects outmaneuvering our top jets. You should go check those out. I've yet to see an explanation that covers all the data those jets…

> I'm sure that a century ago, space was just something we would never reach.

Tsiolkovsky developed his rocket equation in 1903 and in 1928 he published The Will of Universe dedicated to space colonisation. He clearly new it’s within reach of human mind.

Jules Verne published From the Earth to the Moon and given that his works are some early examples of science fiction and not a pure fantasy, one could say even Verne envisioned space travels as possible.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#458

Post by dboreham »

bragr wrote: post #208
zoogeny wrote: post #166

I saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believ…

Why does it have to be a conspiracy? Some small but significant portion of the population is mentally ill, and it seems likely a few would hear a joke ("we keep the alien space ships through that door, I'd show you but I'd have to kill you"), take it way too literally, and it becomes the focus of their mental illness. That seems not only possible but probable given the size the military industrial complex.

Believing BS turns out to be an evolutionary adaptation. The truth is generally too overwhelming to process.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#459

Post by ksaj »

marci wrote: post #258
adventured wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most advanced tech and research, as an overall, would be trivial for an advanced alien to decide. And the US has been leading in those categories for 80 years at least. The notion that it's impossible to figure out whether an advanced alien would think Afghanistan or the US have more advanced tech/research/science, is absurd. And if you can make that distinction, you can keep going.

For a species advanced enough for trivially navigating the universe, the difference between the US and Afghanistan would be trivial. If they are more in the individuality side of thing (in contrast to hive mind), the dumbest of their lot would probably be smarter than the smartest person we can find here, probably looking at us the way we look at other intelligent species. To measure us, would they look at the capaci…

What if they include weapons, specifically guns, in their assessment?

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#460

Post by glenstein »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #306
haswell wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTA: > “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”

> a global solution continues to elude us You gotta love the implied premise that there's a problem to be solved, because of course that's all our government is good for: solving problems it creates. I think the problem here is the government's tendency to lie to its citizens. The solution is unrelated to aliens.

I think one of the most effective strategies of conspiracy theory content relates to exactly this point. You bypass the examination of evidence, and entertain theories that would take evidence as given. I remember a video my stepdad saw about Aliens On The Moon, supposedly there to harvest H3, that, instead of asking whether it was true, asked "what do they want?", and "what are they intending to do?" And there was a part about a grainy picture of the moon, with a narrator suggesting looked like there was a cannon-style weapon, asserting that "experts believe" it is aimed at Earth, implying that it's to keep Earth from challenging them for the precious H3.

Just like that, you are pulled into a story, with all kinds of psychological threads. You run before you're able to walk, essentially, and you get people caught up running, and you can backdoor the presumption that the underlying premise was indeed established.

So, I completely agree at there's such a peculiar note being struck by this implied premise.

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