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SEC asks for emergency order to freeze Binance US assets anywhere in the world

cnbc.com

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Re: SEC asks for emergency order to freeze Binance US assets anywhere in the world

#71

Post by matheusmoreira »

afavour wrote: post #59
matheusmoreira wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are. Actual cryptocurrencies: BTC, ETH, XMR. They have an actual blockchain and serve a purpose. Improper cryptocurrencies are tokens built on top of actual cryptocurrencies. All those shitcoins are just tokens implemented as Ethereum Virtual Machine code.

Bitcoin theoretically serves a purpose (if you can stand its delays in settling transactions, which rules out in person stuff) but let’s be real: the vast majority of cryptocurrency use is speculation, not purchase transactions.

> the vast majority of cryptocurrency use is speculation, not purchase transactions

That doesn't deny its purpose though. I've gotten paid via XMR for programming tasks. Anonymously, even. The fact people treat cryptocurrencies like stocks doesn't nullify that.

The truth is the true source of all problems in this space is the exchanges themselves. They are literally unregulated banks in disguise. Cryptocurrencies should not be regulated at all but exchanges definitely should be.

Re: SEC asks for emergency order to freeze Binance US assets anywhere in the world

#72

Post by lmm »

thelastparadise wrote: post #24

The quality of discourse at this stage of the thread (2 hours, 20 comments) is incredibly disappointing. Hn usually has high quality discussions. What is it about crypto that causes us to lose our minds?

HN discussion quality has been declining for years, ever since dang took over and changed the moderation priorities (though it's not necessarily causal). Crypto is just the leading edge of that.

Re: SEC asks for emergency order to freeze Binance US assets anywhere in the world

#73

Post by lmm »

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #30

I'm perplexed that BTC's price dropped 5% yesterday and bounced right back today. How does the market not care that the biggest exchanges keep collapsing?

The real part of the market does care, the bounce is it being pumped back up.

Re: SEC asks for emergency order to freeze Binance US assets anywhere in the world

#74

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

thelastparadise wrote: post #24

The quality of discourse at this stage of the thread (2 hours, 20 comments) is incredibly disappointing. Hn usually has high quality discussions. What is it about crypto that causes us to lose our minds?

I take issue with something about crypto "causes us to lose our minds?". Couple points:

1. At this stage of the game, there is not a lot new under the sun to discuss that is likely to alter people's opinions. I would say that I did think there were some good comments in some of the other posts about what constitutes a security by the legal definition, and helped me understand better the specific points of the SEC's argument. This story, though, is just about the SEC wanting to freeze Binance US's assets. To be frank, I don't think there is a lot of substantive things to discuss about this particular story.

2. I feel the need to roll my eyes whenever I see the "Well, it's well known HN hates crypto..." lamentations. I will only speak for myself, but I don't "hate crypto". On the contrary, I remember reading the Bitcoin whitepaper early on and thinking how brilliant it was. As time has gone on, however, I've simply come to the conclusion that most crypto technology has very little actual utility. I believe the primary thesis of crypto enthusiasts, that it can somehow "escape" the legal frameworks of human beings (the "code is the law" stuff), is just fundamentally wrong and misguided. I think things like NFTs are just dumb. All this coupled with the fact that the crypto "ecosystem" has drawn in the scummiest set of characters I can think of, and that I think its net utility over the past decade has been negative, just leads me to believe that most crypto technologies deserve to die. This isn't some irrational "I hate crypto" take. This is my (fair, in my opinion) assessment that crypto has little overall utility. I also think this is highlighted by the fact that the amount of real crypto utility that its backers can point to is extremely limited.

In general, I think the HN community is by-and-large quite rational when it comes to evaluating and discussing new technologies. I'm not saying it is always "right", and of course you always have fan boys on all sides, but I do think that reasonable, insightful comments about crypto still bubble to the top.

Re: SEC asks for emergency order to freeze Binance US assets anywhere in the world

#75

Post by codehalo »

barking_biscuit wrote: post #46
thelastparadise wrote: post #24

The quality of discourse at this stage of the thread (2 hours, 20 comments) is incredibly disappointing. Hn usually has high quality discussions. What is it about crypto that causes us to lose our minds?

I remember fondly participating in the hype around crypto in 2017 and going in on btc/eth and also building a mining rig etc. The discourse on HN back then is quite different from today. These days we've seen scam after scam, fraud after fraud, failure after failure. From a technology perspective it's neat, but the kinds of individuals it tends to attract make it seemingly not actually all that useful in wider societ…

I don't know what "discourse" you are talking about. I've been reading about crypto on hacker news before bitcoin hit one dollar. Other than r/buttcoin and yahoo groups, this site has been one of the most anti crypto places you can visit, to the point of being an absolute embarrassment.

It has been a lesson to me about humans and intelligence since that time.

Still love the place though, but I learned never to let comments be the source of the things I need to investigate.

Re: SEC asks for emergency order to freeze Binance US assets anywhere in the world

#76

Post by TheDudeMan »

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #30

I'm perplexed that BTC's price dropped 5% yesterday and bounced right back today. How does the market not care that the biggest exchanges keep collapsing?

Some misinformed people panic-sold yesterday. And well-informed people bought the dip.

As a bitcoin holder, why would I be sad that the SEC is finally fixing the crypto casinos?

Re: SEC asks for emergency order to freeze Binance US assets anywhere in the world

#77

Post by jvanderbot »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #66
jvanderbot wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can list features all day and not convince me of the existence of applications. Privacy that is obtained by obscuring signatories or blending assets is just laundering.

That's like saying effective cryptography is destruction of evidence. "Laundering" is a bullshit concept invented to legitimize total surveillance of financial transactions. This KYC/AML stuff is just the financial arm of global mass surveillance. We must resist it vigorously for the exact same reasons we resist warrantless dragnet data collection.

I see the misunderstanding: I used "laundering" to describe a method of obscuring a trail of exchanges, not a crime.

I can exchange gold, or textiles or something, and not expect surveillance of those transactions. I do live in a country that requires some reporting of those for tax purposes, but not tracking of the assets the way crypto does.

The moment I pick up a monetized piece of paper that the government printed with a serial number and all that, which is guaranteed by the full faith of the government, and is standardized by the government in a global financial system, I accept some side effects, such as the government's expectation of tracking and standardization.

Similarly, the moment I pick up a crypto currency, I accept all the technical limitations / requirements of complete ledger accessibility, and methods of circumventing that are no more sophisticated than laundering.

In effect, with gov-backed money and crypto, you are forced into a system of surveillance. I don't see the privacy angle one bit.

Re: SEC asks for emergency order to freeze Binance US assets anywhere in the world

#78

Post by geraldwhen »

labster wrote: post #16
EA-3167 wrote: post #5

Once again the use-case for crypto turns out to be... large scale criminality and fraud. Shocker.

Crypto is also good as a form of market speculation and to make gaming GPUs too expensive for gamers. Don’t sell it short!

Crypto is no longer mined on gpus. The gpu apocalypse is over.

Re: SEC asks for emergency order to freeze Binance US assets anywhere in the world

#79

Post by matheusmoreira »

RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #62
thelastparadise wrote: post #24

The quality of discourse at this stage of the thread (2 hours, 20 comments) is incredibly disappointing. Hn usually has high quality discussions. What is it about crypto that causes us to lose our minds?

The problem IMHO is that it is so well-known that HN hates crypto that anyone who wants to voice a reasonable opinion is likely to avoid doing so in order to not get piled on with downvotes, hatred, etc. - At least for me that's it, it would be stressful to deal with that so I go elsewhere to discuss the technology. And this is probably precisely how an echo chamber can be created even without recommendation algorith…

> anyone who wants to voice a reasonable opinion is likely to avoid doing so in order to not get piled on with downvotes, hatred, etc

I think refraining from posting due to fear of downvotes is a massive disservice to HN. People should be exposed to views of all kinds. It wouldn't be very interesting if we all agreed. I actively try to post and reply even when downvoted. In the course of doing so I often discover that I'm not alone. Posting freely seems to somehow embolden others to reply as well.

Besides, I've got what 17k HN points? I can't even keep track of them anymore anyway.

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