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US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

theguardian.com

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Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#181

Post by thatjoeoverthr »

orbital-decay wrote: post #104

Aliens just seem to love the USA, don't they? Just like giant prehistoric sea monsters seem to love Japan. It's totally not a cover-up for another black project.

Supposing (for sake of argument) they're real, Americans' broad deployment of advanced avionics could mean we're simply more likely to detect them. Secondly, cultural factors could increase risk of leaks, compared to Russian and Chinese detections. Third, tight control of Russian and Chinese media can suppress any serious discourse. That's enough to give an impression that UFO encounters are an American thing.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#182

Post by teawrecks »

somekyle2 wrote: post #130
boringuser2 wrote: post #98

Would anybody with even an ounce of critical thinking faculty believe this even if they explicitly came out and said "yep, we've got aliums, folks"? There's literally no level of evidence I would accept because the premise is contrary to numerous, basic logical inferences.

If they brought in some trustworthy skeptical folks with some tools and enough background to know what compelling nothing looks like, and they came out saying, "Oh man. oh wow. I'm trying to come up with another explanation, but it really seems like they have it." I'd start taking it seriously. "Guy who seems trustworthy said it's real and he saw the proof" is so very normal, for aliens, ghosts, various religious phe…

Nothing remotely close to that will ever happen, because the people who care about this don't care. In the same way that you want extraordinary evidence to back up these extraordinary claims, they are prepared to disregard any and all evidence to the contrary in order to continue believing all of those same claims.

If you haven't, I recommend watching the YT minidoc "In Search of a Flat Earth" by Folding Ideas. It's not about the aliens, it's not about the earth being flat, it's about the conspiracy and who is behind it. If you dig deep enough, it's always rooted in some racist or antisemitic world view.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#183

Post by arcticbull »

moomoo11 wrote: post #129
orbital-decay wrote: post #104

Aliens just seem to love the USA, don't they? Just like giant prehistoric sea monsters seem to love Japan. It's totally not a cover-up for another black project.

If I came across a planet of smart monkeys and one monkey state had the most baddest mfers with the most insane tech and research, I’d want to learn about them. Everyone’s already encountered the starting conditions in most other countries. US is the only one winning Civilization Earth. I’m a naturalized US citizen, for example. Could have ended up anywhere but it’s best here in terms of opportunity and making new st…

> US is the only one winning Civilization Earth.

Depends what you mean by winning. Other countries have different priorities, for instance the health and welfare of the population over individual wealth. That doesn't make one right or wrong, but it really this reflects on your priorities more than anything else. And that's ok! I'm just saying it's subjective, not objective, and there's no reason to believe that some aliens would share your personal beliefs in re: superiority and therefore prioritize observations there.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#184

Post by detrites »

notatoad wrote: post #142
tmn wrote: post #15

I find this subject fascinating. As the article states, Navy pilots are on record as eye witnesses for this stuff, along with the various radar feeds, etc. I'm curious what HN thinks of the following: There are 3 comprehensive possibilities (correct me if you think differently): 1. These crafts are ET origin 2. These crafts are human origin (secrete military tech or similar) 3. This is a psyop Due to the supposed fee…

why is it always the navy pilots that always see the aliens, and not the commercial pilots. is it because navy pilots are more likely to be flying at some combination of high speed, bad weather conditions, or darkness that tends to make ordinary occurrences look more mysterious?

Because commercial pilots are in control of aircraft flying over densely populated areas, and often responsible for the lives of hundreds on board. A navy pilot typically just has the expensive aircraft and is somewhat expected to be crazy.

So, if a commercial pilot does see such things, they'd be far less likely to report them, as it may well ruin their career. Navy pilots, on the other hand may well get some commendation for identifying an unusual, or anomalous thing (enemy tech?).

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#185

Post by andrewflnr »

boringuser2 wrote: post #120
bsaul wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would those logical inferences be ? I’m not sure i got your point right

I'm willing to put aside literally every mechanical interpretation of probability here, ignoring really poignant questions, in favor of one overarching question: Do you really, really think a species capable of interstellar travel would have vehicles or crafts that we could recognize as such? That feels more like a technology 100-200 years ahead of us, akin to science fiction, than the reality of a species hundreds o…

> Do you really, really think a species capable of interstellar travel would have vehicles or crafts that we could recognize as such?

Yes. That is, they almost certainly use objects made out of actual atoms to travel it or whatever the hell. There are almost no hints, with the possible exception of dark matter, in even the most speculative of well -grounded physics, of anything else they could be using. So that's the the null hypothesis. And the mere presence of that object in an interaction is enough to recognize it with high confidence as a vehicle.

People get too obsessed with the idea of technology indistinguishable from magic. Physics is still real, still imposes hard constraints on technology, and our tech is already sufficiently shaped by those constraints that other things within those constraints will at least be recognizable with some effort. We may not know how it works right away, but that's a very different question.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#186

Post by esprehn »

orbital-decay wrote: post #104

Aliens just seem to love the USA, don't they? Just like giant prehistoric sea monsters seem to love Japan. It's totally not a cover-up for another black project.

You might appreciate Superman Red Son which explores what could have happened if Kal-El landed on a Ukrainian farm instead of Kansas. It's obviously got bias but it's fun to think about what happens if all the hero "stuff" didn't happen in the US.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#187

Post by boringuser2 »

Solvency wrote: post #167
ethanbond wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental issue is that people really have no intuition as to how unfathomably gigantic space is. Traveling Mars to Earth would require some decent tech. Traveling from the next star over requires some mind-bending tech. An entity traveling from the next galaxy over would necessarily be in possession of just some truly incomprehensible technology and would probably exist on spatial and temporal scales that just…

Just playing devils advocate though: okay, but couldn't they also just have really high-tech ships in a primitive shape (like a sphere, for aesthetic reasons) with really fast engines and really strong hulls, too? Maybe we're simply too limited in our naive essence to understand the technology behind such a simple premise.

"Ships" feels really really anthropomorphic.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#188

Post by ethanbond »

Solvency wrote: post #167
ethanbond wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental issue is that people really have no intuition as to how unfathomably gigantic space is. Traveling Mars to Earth would require some decent tech. Traveling from the next star over requires some mind-bending tech. An entity traveling from the next galaxy over would necessarily be in possession of just some truly incomprehensible technology and would probably exist on spatial and temporal scales that just…

Just playing devils advocate though: okay, but couldn't they also just have really high-tech ships in a primitive shape (like a sphere, for aesthetic reasons) with really fast engines and really strong hulls, too? Maybe we're simply too limited in our naive essence to understand the technology behind such a simple premise.

I mean, sure, the odds are not zero. But they seem very, very, very, very close to zero (to me).

And then the odds go down further that they have tech that can move them 10,000+ light years in a palatable amount of time/energy for them to visit Earth.

Then the odds go down further by the fact that, if they exist with that broad a view of the universe, Earth is almost certainly not worth visiting.

Then the odds go down further by the fact that we have allegedly detected and recovered them?

Not zero but it really is astronomically low, even if you have high conviction the universe is actually teeming with life.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#189

Post by fnordsensei »

zoogeny wrote: post #166

I saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believ…

To what end?

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#190

Post by DoreenMichele »

boringuser2 wrote: post #98

Would anybody with even an ounce of critical thinking faculty believe this even if they explicitly came out and said "yep, we've got aliums, folks"? There's literally no level of evidence I would accept because the premise is contrary to numerous, basic logical inferences.

"yep, we've got aliums, folks"?

And now I'm trying to imagine aliens that look like members of the onion family.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion

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