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US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

reuters.com

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Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#321

Post by thot_experiment »

x86x87 wrote: post #218
modeless wrote: post #160

The specific crypto tokens they are classifying as securities are: SOL, ADA, MATIC, FIL, SAND, AXS, CHZ, FLOW, ICP, NEAR, VGX, DASH, and NEXO. Of course they say "not limited to" to hedge their bets, but those are the ones they specifically mention. This is the exact "regulatory clarity" Coinbase has been asking for, but the SEC prefers to sit on their hands for years (while investors are "harmed") and then sue, rath…

Hah. Protecting investors. What a bunch of croc. This was never about protecting investors. If it was they would have issues the guidance 5 years ago. This is about blowing up crypto in general by removing the on/off ramps (ie the exchanges). Also: mandatory crypto is bad for the environment and it consumes more power than the whole country of Argentina! /s But nobody seems to care or talk about how much power crapGP…

Deep learning actually provides something of value now, and the training is in service of seeing if maybe it could do better in the future. Crypto provides a way to part fools from their money, and a way to circumvent financial laws.

Yes, I get that there's "value" to circumventing sanctions and whatnot, but that's the same sort of value as making people phone you to cancel a subscription or optimizing CTR on an ad or whatever. It's not the kind of "value" that benefits society.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#322

Post by dgfitz »

dcow wrote: post #198
Analemma_ wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't tax people on the FMV of gold when they dig it out of the ground. Uh, yeah, we definitely do. I have relatives who sell the oil under their property, and that absolutely is taxable income.

The sale is taxable obviously and of course. The same is true for gold and crypto. But your relatives didn't get a tax bill for 25% of the value of the oil the moment it was prospected, did they? Their land value went up but they weren’t taxed on the value increase either (that happens when the land is sold).

Maybe I'm mistaken, but my property taxes increase as the value of the property increases. The sales tax is a tax on the sale itself when sold at price $X.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#323

Post by whimsicalism »

JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #302
whimsicalism wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin didn't mantain parity at all, it's up some 20,000% since 2013 and +∞ since its inception. Dai and other stablecoins maintain parity and are what is mostly used. > It also failed as a tool for capital controls and tax evasion because if you do that sort of things you don't want publicity...what happened is that crypto-bros and crypto-enthusiast went on to scream off the top of their lungs and it resulted in…

> > Dai and other stablecoins maintain parity and are what is mostly used. Dai and stablecoins are currencies issued by private companies, if the private company sponsoring it were to disappear, the decentralized and federated (or whatever) community won't be able to support such a huge undertaking. Besides the whole thing is pointless because whatever authority or control system you are evading with crypto sooner or…

Wrong from the jump about Dai, and I don't think you know about how black market cash economies work - there are plenty of informal economy places you can exchange local currency for dollar, dollar for crypto, etc.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#324

Post by anonymouskimmer »

andreygrehov wrote: post #40
dragontamer wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article discusses Coinbase Earn, which was a staking service providing APY yields. Is that not an unregistered financial product? That's also the kind of financial product directly behind FTX, Voyager, Gemini, and Lunacoin / Celsius collapses. So we have direct evidence of a particular produce (staking) that is both unregistered and dangerous. That many Americans lost money over.

> That many Americans lost money over. This requires a citation with data points, eg how many Americans lost money, how much money did they lose, etc. Because, what if there are more Americans who've made money than those who have lost? > SEC said Coinbase has since at least 2019 made billions of dollars by handling cryptocurrency transactions, while evading the disclosure requirements meant to protect investors This…

> How's TD Ameritrade protecting me from losing money?

https://www.tdameritrade.com/regulation-best-interest-and-fo...

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#325

Post by zarriak »

I_am_tiberius wrote: post #259

I don't understand why even the hackernews community doesn't see that this is all a political strategy to make sure the digital dollar can exist.

None of the time that libertarian beliefs could protect civil liberties is it ever taken seriously. It exists solely to launder corporate protections and deregulation.

Nothing significant happen to the NSA after the Snowden leaks, nothing significant happened to the FISA court. Also I don’t get how something like CBDC ever exists because of how powerful Visa is.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#326

Post by anonymouskimmer »

andreygrehov wrote: post #94
dragontamer wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've made $86,000 trading Ethereum That's not the problem. The problem is that companies like Celsius, FTX, and Voyager are disappearing and collapsing. Binance and Coinbase are two other companies that could just randomly disappear because of how incredibly sketchy their products are (especially "Earn" or "Staking" products). I'm pointing out companies that collapse (taking literally Billions of American money awa…

Dude, I made that comment in response to your "My coworker lost $X0,000 over Celsius" to highlight the fact that not everyone's circle is losing money. > Coinbase is doing the same thing as Celsius, Voyager, and FTX with their Earn / Staking products. And now the SEC is suing them over it. Why can't SEC work with Coinbase before suing them? Again, Coinbase has been seeking help from SEC for years. Brian Armstrong, th…

> Why can't SEC work with Coinbase before suing them? Again, Coinbase has been seeking help from SEC for years.

How has Coinbase been "seeking help"? They are a company, they should be going to the SEC with all of the particulars of each of their investment items and saying to the SEC "We believe we have met your standards of fiduciary duty on these items that appear to be securities, have we?" They shouldn't be saying, "Hey, SEC, are these things we're selling securities, and thus need a higher standard of duty of care? Tee hee, we can't figure it out on our own, as we're just a little company with thousands of employees trading billions of dollars a year. Until you get back to us we'll just assume that they aren't securities and won't bother meeting the higher standard of care."

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#327

Post by lottin »

dcow wrote: post #294
JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can consume a Fortnite skin or a Call of Duty weapon. The point is that you cannot consume crypto, it's a problem which is understood inside the community, that's why the push for NFTs which started as legitimate art to enjoy on huge 8K screens or VR headsets but quickly ended up becoming Twitter avatars built for the purpose of trading and offloading to a bigger fool.

You consume it by trading it or, for a direct analog to your example, by showing off your wallet balance. Your Fortnite skin is no more consumable than a BTC. It just has a different value and use.

Trading a commodity doesn't consume it. If I trade a hamburger, the hamburger isn't consumed. It's only consumed when I eat it.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#328

Post by anonymouskimmer »

lifeonlars wrote: post #87
andreygrehov wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If my personal social circle is showing huge losses in these companies, I have to imagine that other people out there have similar experiences. This is a personal bias. I've made $86,000 trading Ethereum. My brother-in-law made $24,000 trading Bitcoin. My reality is different from your reality ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I can't speak for Celsius, Voyager, and FTX. If there was a scam, it has to be punished. No questions asked. But…

That's irrelevant. By definition, Ponzi schemes involve some investors making a lot of money and others losing. That doesn't make them any less illegal. If some people are harmed by unlawful behavior, that is a reason to prosecute, just the same as if you mugged Alice and bought Bob an icecream with the proceeds.

Would pumping Bob's stomach be an unreasonable seizure? How can Alice be made whole if it is?

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#329

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dbmikus wrote: post #280
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would exclude a raft of non-US citizens then, i.e. any sanctioned country This lays bare the problem with the status quo . Wanting to profit off sanctions busting isn’t a sympathetic pitch.

In some cases, I find it sympathetic. For example, I don't think it's a clear cut moral resolution that people should exclude Iran from buying US goods and services, but they are on the sanctioned list. I supported Obama dropping sanctions on Iran back when he was president. There's a difference between what is legal and what is moral. For what is moral, there are hardly any absolute answers.

> I don't think it's a clear cut moral resolution that people should exclude Iran from buying US goods and services, but they are on the sanctioned list

Sure. But crypto is an inefficient way to express that policy preference. And it's difficult to comport claims of altruistic intent with crypto's financial incentives.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#330

Post by ceejayoz »

jahewson wrote: post #232
Analemma_ wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of people have speculated that this was a CYA move. I mean, if you get hired as the Compliance Officer for a company which clearly has no interest in compliance and only hired you to give a facade of respectability, you probably want to have a paper trail indicating "I clearly communicated that this was against the law, and they ignored me" for when the cops inevitably come.

Nothing says “innocent” like observing your criminality before getting right back to participating in the crime.

It could, if you're a whistleblower/informant. The SEC's bounty program makes it a pretty good idea. https://www.sec.gov/whistleblower
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