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Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

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Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#21

Post by sushid »

veave wrote: post #18
mrguyorama wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that basically no content creators could self start in that world. Right now, most of these companies benefit from having a massive pipeline of kids dreaming to be stars, who all shoot their shot at streaming. Some inevitably have a knack, or catch some fad, or something, and can generate massive revenue and replace the people who have been chewed up and extracted by the machine, because it's basically…

So self-start in twitch, which is free, and then move onto another platform that allows for sponsorships once you get one and can therefore afford to pay for the bandwidth.

It's not easy to move your viewership out of Twitch. Even top Twitch streamers had this difficulty so it's not going to be doable for an up and coming streamer.

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#22

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #19
mrguyorama wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that basically no content creators could self start in that world. Right now, most of these companies benefit from having a massive pipeline of kids dreaming to be stars, who all shoot their shot at streaming. Some inevitably have a knack, or catch some fad, or something, and can generate massive revenue and replace the people who have been chewed up and extracted by the machine, because it's basically…

If you haven't caught an audience yet then you're probably streaming to very few people. A few dollars can cover that bandwidth until you get one or two subs or donators.

I'd also venture to guess (no hard numbers) that most successful streamers -- measured as "they don't need a day job" -- started streaming as a hobby. Such a person is much more likely to be willing to spend a few dollars a month, especially considering they'll likely already have purchased a microphone and webcam.

That being said, maybe it's better for it to be free considering the people paying for such a hobby would be among this "massive pipeline of kids dreaming to be stars".

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#23

Post by Dylan16807 »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #22
Dylan16807 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you haven't caught an audience yet then you're probably streaming to very few people. A few dollars can cover that bandwidth until you get one or two subs or donators.

I'd also venture to guess (no hard numbers) that most successful streamers -- measured as "they don't need a day job" -- started streaming as a hobby. Such a person is much more likely to be willing to spend a few dollars a month, especially considering they'll likely already have purchased a microphone and webcam. That being said, maybe it's better for it to be free considering the people paying for such a hobby wou…

In practice there are lots of ways to stream for free to a small audience, and that is a good thing. I just don't think the idea of paying for bandwidth would be much of a barrier.

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#25

Post by rektide »

mrguyorama wrote: post #11
wilg wrote: post #9

It's a shame there's not an easy-to-use version of Twitch where you pay your own bandwidth costs and whatnot. It would make the economics a lot clearer to everyone.

The problem is that basically no content creators could self start in that world. Right now, most of these companies benefit from having a massive pipeline of kids dreaming to be stars, who all shoot their shot at streaming. Some inevitably have a knack, or catch some fad, or something, and can generate massive revenue and replace the people who have been chewed up and extracted by the machine, because it's basically…

What evidence do you have that getting self started is so impossible?

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#26

Post by d1str0 »

rektide wrote: post #25
mrguyorama wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that basically no content creators could self start in that world. Right now, most of these companies benefit from having a massive pipeline of kids dreaming to be stars, who all shoot their shot at streaming. Some inevitably have a knack, or catch some fad, or something, and can generate massive revenue and replace the people who have been chewed up and extracted by the machine, because it's basically…

What evidence do you have that getting self started is so impossible?

Common sense given economy of scale.

There’s definitely a barrier between totally free and even just a few dollars a month in bandwidth.

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#27

Post by EvanAnderson »

minimaxir wrote: post #5

More importantly, the new TOS bans in-stream ads (i.e. burned-in sponsorship logos) which is how most events on Twitch earn revenue: > Twitch has the exclusive right to monetize the Twitch Services, including without limitation, the exclusive right to sell, serve, and display advertisements on the Twitch Services. This means you may not, nor may you allow a third party to, insert or embed prerecorded advertising unit…

So, product placement it is, then!

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#29

Post by tomkarho »

d1str0 wrote: post #26
rektide wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence do you have that getting self started is so impossible?

Common sense given economy of scale. There’s definitely a barrier between totally free and even just a few dollars a month in bandwidth.

I agree with the sentiment but I'd love to see some numbers to that effect.

Here's my lousy attempt (someone more fluent in math than me, please correct because these numbers seem crazy to me so I concede the high probability that I am wrong).

Let's say I want to stream hd picture so bandwidth requirement would be roughly 3MB/s. That's what I presume it takes to deliver one second of hd video to a single person. Let's assume that there is some mighty compression in play and that brings it down to 1mb/s.

Let's assume I became popular enough that my servers are streaming data 24/7. that's 86 400 seconds so 86 400MB ~ 86GB. Per day. For one person to get my awesome video content constantly.

Most VPS providers give certain amount of bandwidth with the initial offerings. I am using Digital Ocean as reference which means roughly that for each 5$ (the cheapest VPS) you get 1tb (or 1000 GB) of bandwidth until they start billing for more.

So for "free" you get to send data to 1000 / 86GB = 11.6 ~ 12 people max until you start getting billed extra. Per day.

DO bills 0.01$ per GB over the limit. If it takes 86GB to deliver content 24/7 to one person, imagine a thousand. That's 860$. Per day.

Let's add some server costs and extra transfer for all the youtube-ish ui experience and I think we can land to a solid 1000$. Per. Day.

Re: Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

#30

Post by lyu07282 »

minimaxir wrote: post #5

More importantly, the new TOS bans in-stream ads (i.e. burned-in sponsorship logos) which is how most events on Twitch earn revenue: > Twitch has the exclusive right to monetize the Twitch Services, including without limitation, the exclusive right to sell, serve, and display advertisements on the Twitch Services. This means you may not, nor may you allow a third party to, insert or embed prerecorded advertising unit…

This will kill all major streamer events, like the OTK live show they had in Las Vegas last week or the Streamer Awards. I also find it strange how YouTube has no problem with it but somehow Twitch makes a big deal about it.

If anyone is curious about the production quality of those shows:

The Streamer Awards 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnoiaRk7eqM&t=1830s

OTK Elevated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1fdisLMwIc&t=1202s

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