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The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

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Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#291
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Destroying dams is explicitly a war crime.

wanted to take you up on the "explicitly" then just googled it myself. in deed the additional protocol i of the geneva convention has something explicit to say about dams. ---- "[...] the Nova Kakhovka dam has been earmarked as a potential target for [...] its strategic importance" "Its destruction would have a number of significant repercussions [...] for Ukraine’s wider war effort." https://www.theguardian.com/worl…

I don't think that this constrain applies. The dam was part of the Russia-occupied territory or part of the gray zone. Ukraine was not using the damn dam for anything.

At this point I'm not willing to give Russia the benefit of the doubt anymore. Their leadership has more than sufficiently demonstrated that they consider atrocities and crimes of war as part of the toolbox, so to say.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#292
post #179
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the innundation by blowing up the dikes in ww2 near my birth city it's not unprecedented but now definately a war crime (which the allies did btw). The reservoir here was the North Sea.

You're talking about Operation Infatuate when the Allies flooded Westerscheld? Flooding size could be bigger but affected population was way smaller.

An arguably smaller war crime then?

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#293
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the unlikely event of retaking Crimea, Ukraine is going to prosecute collaborators, cancel _all_ property deals after 2014, and expel Russian citizens who never had Ukrainian citizenship. I have received Russian citizenship, some of my family members have been Russian citizens all their life, and I have inherited, sold, and bought property after 2014. And while it is not clear who is going to be considered a colla…

I find it very unlikely that they would imprison, essentially, the entire remaining pre-2014 population of Crimea on the sole basis of having received a Russian passport. It's going to be a large problem in the occupied territories as well, as people have been refused medical care and other necessities unless accepting a Russian passport or in some cases threatened and tortured. Separating out those who were under ge…

Oh, I am not a settler, I was born in Sevastopol and lived here most of my life, as most people I know. It is hard to be sure, but I'd say, only about 10% of the current population came after 2014, the rest lived here before and then took Russian citizenship.

Cancelling property deals after 2014 would effectively mean most will still be able to live in their homes and apartments but will never be able to sell anything. It took me 5 years to change Ukrainian documents to Russian documents (property documents, passports, driver license, everything), and I still have not received and will probably never receive ownership on the small workshop that belonged to my father's company because it requires something from Ukrainian archives, which is pretty much impossible to obtain. I spent months of my life standing in queues in government agencies and in the court. I cannot imagine changing everything back, it will take decades!

And then, what about the kids who were born here after 2014 and have no Ukrainian documents? What about tens of thousands who lived here all their life but who always were Russian citizens, like my father in law? Sevastopol has been a Russian navy base since 1783, there are so many people who are kids and grandkids of retired navy officers, who were born and lived here but never had Ukrainian citizenship. What about their families, and everybody who had some relation with Russian navy? Half of guys my class in 1994 went to the local Russian navy academy and became Russian navy officers, no chance they or their families can re-integrate in Ukraine. And then the Russian military shipyards, and the local branch of Moscow State University and many many other Russian institutions which were functioning here since forever and all the people working for them and their families... Russia has always had so much presence here, I honestly cannot imagine Ukraine taking over Crimea without expelling or imprisoning half of the population.

Sorry for the brain dump, I didn't mean to make a statement or prove anything, it is just such a mess it hurts to even think about this all.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#294
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wanted to take you up on the "explicitly" then just googled it myself. in deed the additional protocol i of the geneva convention has something explicit to say about dams. ---- "[...] the Nova Kakhovka dam has been earmarked as a potential target for [...] its strategic importance" "Its destruction would have a number of significant repercussions [...] for Ukraine’s wider war effort." https://www.theguardian.com/worl…

I don't think that this constrain applies. The dam was part of the Russia-occupied territory or part of the gray zone. Ukraine was not using the damn dam for anything. At this point I'm not willing to give Russia the benefit of the doubt anymore. Their leadership has more than sufficiently demonstrated that they consider atrocities and crimes of war as part of the toolbox, so to say.

doesn't this make it more plausible that ukraine blew it up?

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#295
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it very unlikely that they would imprison, essentially, the entire remaining pre-2014 population of Crimea on the sole basis of having received a Russian passport. It's going to be a large problem in the occupied territories as well, as people have been refused medical care and other necessities unless accepting a Russian passport or in some cases threatened and tortured. Separating out those who were under ge…

Oh, I am not a settler, I was born in Sevastopol and lived here most of my life, as most people I know. It is hard to be sure, but I'd say, only about 10% of the current population came after 2014, the rest lived here before and then took Russian citizenship. Cancelling property deals after 2014 would effectively mean most will still be able to live in their homes and apartments but will never be able to sell anythin…

Oh I wasn't implying you were a settler, it was clear that you were not from the original post. But you mentioned others. There's really no great answers, certainly no blanket ones.

In any case, taking a passport alone will not be the critera: https://kyivindependent.com/official-advises-ukrainians/

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#296
post #5

Sad how much destruction war brings.

It's also weird how totally unnecessary all of this is. You could probably say that about most wars really, but this one is entirely pointless. Russia didn't have to invade at all. They can go home at any time and it'd all just stop. It'll be hard enough to deal with all the loss and damage that's been done already.

Russia’s image as superpower had been damaged. If Russia end the conflict Putin dies. He won’t let that happen

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#297
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the unlikely event of retaking Crimea, Ukraine is going to prosecute collaborators, cancel _all_ property deals after 2014, and expel Russian citizens who never had Ukrainian citizenship. I have received Russian citizenship, some of my family members have been Russian citizens all their life, and I have inherited, sold, and bought property after 2014. And while it is not clear who is going to be considered a colla…

I find it very unlikely that they would imprison, essentially, the entire remaining pre-2014 population of Crimea on the sole basis of having received a Russian passport. It's going to be a large problem in the occupied territories as well, as people have been refused medical care and other necessities unless accepting a Russian passport or in some cases threatened and tortured. Separating out those who were under ge…

> I find it very unlikely that they would imprison

Lol? "Presumption of guilt" for anyone who lives (or happens to be) in Crimea.

EDIT: with a strongly implied round ups for anyone deemed undesirable

https://tweet.lambda.dance/Spriter99880/status/1663931257053...

> some cases threatened and tortured

Sorry? At least OSCE SMM or equivalent source?

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#298
post #166
post #2

Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nova-kakhovka-dam-khers... Simulation of worst-case scenarios: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tRYWbVD5AE The Russian State News agency claims that the dam "collapsed due to damage" https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/166592960325106892... Ukraine says it was destroyed by the Russian military. Google maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kakhovka+Hydroelectric+Po…

Who benefits the most from the collapse? Does it disturb Ukraine or Russian military the most? Who will achieve military goals because of this? Does it help Ukraine in information warfare? (does it increase West participation to war)

> Who benefits the most from the collapse?

Russia. Turns everything from Zaporizhzhia to the Black Sea into a boggy-ass mess of mud (draining the reservoir will leave mud, flooding the downstream will leave mud). Filling the reservoir before blowing it like they did only maximizes the amount of mud left. Lets Russia shift more forces north.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#299
post #280
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't support Ukraine in this conflict for different reasons, one of which is that in case of their victory my family will loose everything and I'll end up in jail (and that's best case). Why would this happen?.

In the unlikely event of retaking Crimea, Ukraine is going to prosecute collaborators, cancel _all_ property deals after 2014, and expel Russian citizens who never had Ukrainian citizenship. I have received Russian citizenship, some of my family members have been Russian citizens all their life, and I have inherited, sold, and bought property after 2014. And while it is not clear who is going to be considered a colla…

> In the unlikely event of retaking Crimea, Ukraine is going to prosecute collaborators

You have a wrong choice of words here, sadly. Every one would be prosecuted and after that they would decide who was a collaborator and who wasn't.

https://tweet.lambda.dance/Spriter99880/status/1663931257053...

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#300
post #252
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously ruzzia benefits, by blocking western front in preparation of the Ukrainian advance.

It blocks or slows only couple weeks at max. Not really a big gain. The river has 6 dams. Ukraine can control the upstream flow. It is estimated than in three days, the highest point in downstream is reached and then it will get lower. In the war which has lasted more than year, the benefit is meaningless. On the other hand, the flow flushes all the Russian defenses on the other side. And the source of drinkable wate…

> It is estimated than in three days, the highest point in downstream is reached and then it will get lower.

Leaving a nice barrier of impassible mud everywhere around the river.

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