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Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

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Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#171

Post by rileyphone »

codeflo wrote: post #51

All the people in this thread who decoded it used long exposure or faster playback. Using the latter, for me, it starts to become readable at 2.5x and is essentially a clear static image at 4x. (I had to download the video and play it back using VLC.) Which for me, makes this claim a bit absurd: > At a theoretical level, this confirmation is significant because it is the first clear demonstration of a real perceptual…

Andres posted a reply on Twitter: https://twitter.com/algekalipso/status/1666091889500758016

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#172

Post by s1artibartfast »

tuyiown wrote: post #162
s1artibartfast wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the statement only holds true if you are trying to learn about shared reality. Perception Isn't false, it's subjective. It's real in its own domain, but that domain may not generalize or overlap with a shared physical reality or perceptions made by other people.

The perception as two sides: the signal, and how it's processed. The signal is real and true just by it's existence. Note that this also applies with self-generated signal such as phantom limbs. For the processing, the subjective part of the perception, lot of things falls appart, attaching any notion of reality and trustiness looks like a choice to enable some lines of reflection. A choice heavily oriented by our ow…

I think the point I was making is different. It was that perception and experiences are real, just not necessarily reflective of a shared reality. The state of consciousness is much more than just the processing of external signals.

> if you have a solid source or line of thought that manages to explain one's sense of reality being more than «it's how I feel it for me, so that must be true of others, otherwise it's quite scary», I'm really (really) interested.

The best example I can think of is a dream. Dreams are real experiences despite not being shared with any other human. It would be absurd to say that you can't have dreams because they aren't perceived by or true for other people. The same holds true for thoughts and feelings.

People don't get sent into an existential crisis because they feel happy while someone somewhere is unhappy. Having a feeling is a real experience, despite being personal and subjective.

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#173

Post by teucris »

Can we please stop putting things on a 1-dimensional “better/worse” scale? Even more, can we stop assuming that there is a high correlation between “processing power” and this reductive grading system?

It’s clear to me that the brain, the brain on psychedelics, computers, etc are all just systems that are attuned to specific things. These tests do not show a system that is purportedly better than a sober mind using technologies to achieve the same effect - they provide some insight into how the mind, in particular the visual system, works.

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#174

Post by nbardy »

motohagiography wrote: post #113
codeflo wrote: post #51

All the people in this thread who decoded it used long exposure or faster playback. Using the latter, for me, it starts to become readable at 2.5x and is essentially a clear static image at 4x. (I had to download the video and play it back using VLC.) Which for me, makes this claim a bit absurd: > At a theoretical level, this confirmation is significant because it is the first clear demonstration of a real perceptual…

This is consistent with the idea that the geometric patterns of hallucinogenic drugs are just feedback artifacts in an analog system of your senses, and by imparing its 'clock' signal chemically, you get periodic noise whose geometry is proportional to the signalling frequency and its failures. No higher dimensions, just maybe a lower, impaired, fractal dimension. There are still theraputic uses for this impairment,…

You admit that there is plenty of recreational and therapeutical use for them and then that leads you to the conclusion that they’re not spiritual gateways. I find this surprising as those are one in the same to me.

Spiritual experiences have been about recreation, understanding others, the self, personal growth, coming of age, etc…

I feel like your post in general is full of acknowledgment of these drugs capabilities followed by attempts to downplay it with pejoratives like “chemical glitching” or “lower dimension”. It’s quiet confusing that you seem to think positively of the drugs but then dunk on them in the same breath.

I don’t think being able to explain, categorize and describe phenomena needs to make them less significant or impact. The mechanism of action being non mystical doesn’t need to change the significance of the experience.

This reminds me of a quote from Margaret Boden about her work on understanding creativity in a academic context.

> A scientific understanding of creativity does not destroy our wonder at it, nor does it make creative ideas predictable. Demystification does not imply dehumanization.

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#175

Post by jabbany »

swayvil wrote: post #160
jabbany wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The experience you described is no indicator of whether "volume of thought is still much higher than normal" though? You'd have the exact same experience if the actual mechanism is that "had the label on [your] memories altered". To scientifically test this, you'd need some normalized "benchmark task" of thought, and then compare the difference in progress on such a thought task between the control and psychedelic ca…

>To scientifically test this... I swear, you people turn science into a religious ritual. First-hand observation (which we have here) is the gold standard for knowledge-derivation. Science is just a method for ensuring that our models hew close to that. What you assert here is mere convention.

No...? Science is just a tool to resolve disagreements in conclusions about observations. It is a pretty effective tool if your personal philosophy believes reality is objective (externally defined) and shared.

It's not the only tool available though. You could also use other tools like coercion, intimidation, violence, negotiation, etc. to also arrive at a single conclusion. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#176

Post by moomoo11 »

LastTrain wrote: post #163
moomoo11 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like time goes by “slower” for me ever since I did a heroic dose a few years ago. Used to be stressed the f out all the time. Now I feel like I can enjoy every full second. Crazy how much time we have in life when we just stop paying attention to the negative energies like stress and instead channel them into storage for something positive later. I’ve always been efficient and quick at learning new things and…

The problem is, of course, you have no idea if that dose is what caused the change. That change in personal outlook may have been coming your direction anyway, or you may have experienced it sooner if you hadn't been doing LSD at all.

[flagged]

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#177

Post by whalesalad »

motohagiography wrote: post #113
codeflo wrote: post #51

All the people in this thread who decoded it used long exposure or faster playback. Using the latter, for me, it starts to become readable at 2.5x and is essentially a clear static image at 4x. (I had to download the video and play it back using VLC.) Which for me, makes this claim a bit absurd: > At a theoretical level, this confirmation is significant because it is the first clear demonstration of a real perceptual…

This is consistent with the idea that the geometric patterns of hallucinogenic drugs are just feedback artifacts in an analog system of your senses, and by imparing its 'clock' signal chemically, you get periodic noise whose geometry is proportional to the signalling frequency and its failures. No higher dimensions, just maybe a lower, impaired, fractal dimension. There are still theraputic uses for this impairment,…

I hadn’t heard this theory before but it makes sense at first glance.

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#178

Post by drdeca »

nbardy wrote: post #174
motohagiography wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is consistent with the idea that the geometric patterns of hallucinogenic drugs are just feedback artifacts in an analog system of your senses, and by imparing its 'clock' signal chemically, you get periodic noise whose geometry is proportional to the signalling frequency and its failures. No higher dimensions, just maybe a lower, impaired, fractal dimension. There are still theraputic uses for this impairment,…

You admit that there is plenty of recreational and therapeutical use for them and then that leads you to the conclusion that they’re not spiritual gateways. I find this surprising as those are one in the same to me. Spiritual experiences have been about recreation, understanding others, the self, personal growth, coming of age, etc… I feel like your post in general is full of acknowledgment of these drugs capabilitie…

I don’t think “lower dimension” is a pejorative, just, contrasting with the “higher dimension” claim. Like, just literally a lower dimensionality (on account of the fractal dimension, where the metric dimension is less than the (integer) topological dimension)

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#179

Post by tekno45 »

LastTrain wrote: post #163
moomoo11 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like time goes by “slower” for me ever since I did a heroic dose a few years ago. Used to be stressed the f out all the time. Now I feel like I can enjoy every full second. Crazy how much time we have in life when we just stop paying attention to the negative energies like stress and instead channel them into storage for something positive later. I’ve always been efficient and quick at learning new things and…

The problem is, of course, you have no idea if that dose is what caused the change. That change in personal outlook may have been coming your direction anyway, or you may have experienced it sooner if you hadn't been doing LSD at all.

"You don't know if you were gonna have a life changing epiphany next week or not!!!"

The radical changes in mentality from psychedelics is well documented. Not understood but documented.

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