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US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

reuters.com

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Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#131

Post by vkou »

taeric wrote: post #127
vkou wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no. No hemming or hawing. It's a simple question, yes, or no? ---- Is it clear to you now that a simple yes or no question, couched in an incorrect assertion is not actually a simple yes-or-no question?

A question where answering easily implies past behavior is very different from one that does not. "Do you think it is ok to beat your spouse?" better not get any slow rolled answer, and is more comparable here. Hell, I'd be fine with a hedged answer of "it can be." That would make a ton of sense and would make sense. Akin to asking "is it speeding to drive your car at 40?" The answer would be "in certain situations,…

Past behaviour isn't the issue. An incorrect assertion is the issue.

Let me give you another chance to answer a simple yes or no question.

----

Since it's obvious that democrats are all criminals and baby-eaters, is Elizabeth Warren a democrat?

Yes or no. No hemming or hawing. I'll interrupt you as soon as I hear any words besides those two. Your answer or failure to answer will appear as a headline in the New York Times.

----

The chair was responding to the statement made in the question, the congressman just didn't like what that response was, which is why he kept interrupting.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#132

Post by soco »

koonsolo wrote: post #126
soco wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The era of the few crypto billionaires and the crowd of regular Joe money-losers. Ah, those times.

Go and take a look at the long term price of bitcoin. How anyone can lose money in that market is beyond me.

Money is not created out of thin air. There's electricity to mine, there's funds investing in crypto, there's fiat used to pay ransoms... All this means real world money got spent.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#133

Post by lottin »

vkou wrote: post #123
dcow wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two modalities to crypto and the law needs to treat them differently. Running a node on a crypto currency network does not generate securities. It generates commodities. We don't tax people on the FMV of gold when they dig it out of the ground. But, speculating on the price of gold by creating a virtual token/contract/etc. and selling that, well that’s obviously a security. Just because people buy gold spec…

> We don't tax people on the FMV of gold when they dig it out of the ground. Why shouldn't we? We tax people on the FMV of something valuable created out of thin air, why should gold be an exception?

It isn't exempt. The miner will have to pay VAT when they try to sell the gold.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#134

Post by api »

TimPC wrote: post #2

Crypto companies think they don't trade securities which is clearly wrong and contradicted by their own advertising. People buy crypto without a real use for crypto because they think they can sell it for more later. Everyone under the sun knows this. It's obviously a security and failing to register should be met by SEC cases like this one.

A security represents ownership in something. This is just gambling. It's more like an unregulated casino than an unlicensed stock exchange.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#135

Post by [deleted] »

lottin wrote: post #129
dcow wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the pure commodity coins (layer 1 networks like btc, xch, etc) are confusing at all. You do work and get rewarded with a digital commodity. It’s exactly like digging up gold, or tapping a tree for maple syrup. Then a bunch of crypto anarchists showed up and started speculating that these coins would be worth a lot in the future because we could topple the financial hegemony by their powers combined. Oka…

But what on earth is a digital commodity? I think the whole concept of digital commodity is nonsensical. A commodity is a product. Products are either consumed or used as raw materials. A digital commodity is not a product. It can't be consumed or used, because it's entirely imaginary. I think a better term is "abstract unit of account".

[deleted]

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#136

Post by detrites »

mrkramer wrote: post #65

Grace period of unregulated crypto is over. Brace yourself, SEC is coming!

The SEC issues fines. To them it's taking a cut, to Binance etc, it's operating expenses.

These "enforcements" are more like protection money paid to gangsters. The SEC could have created clarity a decade ago.

It's not in their interest to do so, plain and simple. They are incentivised financially, to persist in creating a lack of clarity, and then randomly "enforcing" inconsistently to extract multi-millions off of effectively approved profits.

If / when they refer cases to the DoJ, it's different. But, typically they don't, because typically most of the players they're going after are doing their best to comply with the "uncompliable" landscape they are facing. Or - they're FTX.

And let's just remember that, always. The SEC, effectively, gave FTX a green light. Maybe the most damaging crypto fail in history likely an outright fraud, of massive proportions and where was the SEC? That's what we're dealing with here.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#137

Post by [deleted] »

lottin wrote: post #129
dcow wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the pure commodity coins (layer 1 networks like btc, xch, etc) are confusing at all. You do work and get rewarded with a digital commodity. It’s exactly like digging up gold, or tapping a tree for maple syrup. Then a bunch of crypto anarchists showed up and started speculating that these coins would be worth a lot in the future because we could topple the financial hegemony by their powers combined. Oka…

But what on earth is a digital commodity? I think the whole concept of digital commodity is nonsensical. A commodity is a product. Products are either consumed or used as raw materials. A digital commodity is not a product. It can't be consumed or used, because it's entirely imaginary. I think a better term is "abstract unit of account".

[deleted]

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#138

Post by WoahNoun »

dcow wrote: post #105
TimPC wrote: post #2

Crypto companies think they don't trade securities which is clearly wrong and contradicted by their own advertising. People buy crypto without a real use for crypto because they think they can sell it for more later. Everyone under the sun knows this. It's obviously a security and failing to register should be met by SEC cases like this one.

There are two modalities to crypto and the law needs to treat them differently. Running a node on a crypto currency network does not generate securities. It generates commodities. We don't tax people on the FMV of gold when they dig it out of the ground. But, speculating on the price of gold by creating a virtual token/contract/etc. and selling that, well that’s obviously a security. Just because people buy gold spec…

> We don't tax people on the FMV of gold when they dig it out of the ground.

The IRS considers found gold to be gross income and taxes are owed on it.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#139

Post by gitfan86 »

cultureswitch wrote: post #125

And there we go. The promise of a form of cash outside of USA government control is terrifying to the USA government. And well, most other governments too. It is pretty obvious that when the USA government goes after crypto exchanges, what matters is to get the exchange shut down. The actual justification for doing so is an afterthought. I'm torn on the issue of whether dematerialized privacy-preserving cash (and yea…

That is putting the cart before the horse. The USA is not a libertarian government. Why did anyone think that it was a good idea to invest in products that would only survive in a libertarian government?

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#140

Post by cultureswitch »

gonzo41 wrote: post #15
TimPC wrote: post #2

Crypto companies think they don't trade securities which is clearly wrong and contradicted by their own advertising. People buy crypto without a real use for crypto because they think they can sell it for more later. Everyone under the sun knows this. It's obviously a security and failing to register should be met by SEC cases like this one.

What's the use of crypto again? Because I think it's kinda useless. Just like NFT's

Imagine your business or employer is suddenly blacklisted by payment processors over political/cultural reasons.

The advantages of crypto should become pretty clear at that point.

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