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Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

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Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#161

Post by thumbuddy »

causi wrote: post #69
thumbuddy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, according to people who have done buckets of psychedelics, there's an awful lot more to the psychedelic experience than 2.5-4x slower processing speed. I recall reading of numerous people who found they could collectively slow down a wall clock to the point were it didn't move any longer, and people who have experienced what they refer to as "eternity", "multiple life times", "thousands of years", etc. Also…

people who have experienced what they refer to as "eternity", "multiple life times", "thousands of years", etc. They didn't "experience an eternity". They experienced an emotional feeling they likened to an eternity. This is the difference between your computer running a program for a thousand years and you changing the date settings. These people did not go through an eternity of perception, processing, and thought;…

[flagged]

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#162

Post by tuyiown »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #119
tuyiown wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no telling what time perception is "correct" or "real". Perception is always, always false, the same way that our internal reality is imperfect. The only way to trust perception is to go through repeatable experiment and see that results conforms to prediction, eg. science. Science is the only and sole way to determine our shared reality, anything else is literally lucky heuristics, including the behavior o…

I feel like the statement only holds true if you are trying to learn about shared reality. Perception Isn't false, it's subjective. It's real in its own domain, but that domain may not generalize or overlap with a shared physical reality or perceptions made by other people.

The perception as two sides: the signal, and how it's processed. The signal is real and true just by it's existence. Note that this also applies with self-generated signal such as phantom limbs.

For the processing, the subjective part of the perception, lot of things falls appart, attaching any notion of reality and trustiness looks like a choice to enable some lines of reflection. A choice heavily oriented by our own experience of existence, nobody wants to see themselves as a bag of more or less working heuristics with conscience as meta processing and data acquisition for self-correction mechanism.

But if you have a solid source or line of thought that manages to explain one's sense of reality being more than «it's how I feel it for me, so that must be true of others, otherwise it's quite scary», I'm really (really) interested.

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#163

Post by LastTrain »

moomoo11 wrote: post #129
codeflo wrote: post #51

All the people in this thread who decoded it used long exposure or faster playback. Using the latter, for me, it starts to become readable at 2.5x and is essentially a clear static image at 4x. (I had to download the video and play it back using VLC.) Which for me, makes this claim a bit absurd: > At a theoretical level, this confirmation is significant because it is the first clear demonstration of a real perceptual…

I feel like time goes by “slower” for me ever since I did a heroic dose a few years ago. Used to be stressed the f out all the time. Now I feel like I can enjoy every full second. Crazy how much time we have in life when we just stop paying attention to the negative energies like stress and instead channel them into storage for something positive later. I’ve always been efficient and quick at learning new things and…

The problem is, of course, you have no idea if that dose is what caused the change. That change in personal outlook may have been coming your direction anyway, or you may have experienced it sooner if you hadn't been doing LSD at all.

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#164

Post by MacsHeadroom »

dandanua wrote: post #149
redox99 wrote: post #31

You can see the messages if you take a long exposure shot (2s) from your phone Here are the photos from my phone https://imgur.com/a/WOqbQVo

So, psychedelics can give you a longer exposure vision. It might be useful for looking at stars and galaxies. Not so much for everything else.

It's not just vision!

Psychedelics give all perceptions including mental concepts "long exposure" as well, causing them to overlap in ways which rarely happen sober.

This allows for forming wholly new connections and insights otherwise out of reach for the sober mind.

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#165

Post by roughly »

sayanwita wrote: post #151
MAGZine wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that is a pretty sweeping claim given the limitation of science when it comes to understanding the psychoactive effects of entheogens. Especially for something like spirituality, which is almost by definition something experienced within.

That's true! But, don't you think that our inner state can be correctly described in terms of electrochemical activities inside the brain, including spirituality?

In the same way that the current state of a computer can be described by the position of electrons within its components or a party can be described by the relative position and density of various types of atoms in the room, sure.

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#166

Post by pulkitsh1234 »

motohagiography wrote: post #113
codeflo wrote: post #51

All the people in this thread who decoded it used long exposure or faster playback. Using the latter, for me, it starts to become readable at 2.5x and is essentially a clear static image at 4x. (I had to download the video and play it back using VLC.) Which for me, makes this claim a bit absurd: > At a theoretical level, this confirmation is significant because it is the first clear demonstration of a real perceptual…

This is consistent with the idea that the geometric patterns of hallucinogenic drugs are just feedback artifacts in an analog system of your senses, and by imparing its 'clock' signal chemically, you get periodic noise whose geometry is proportional to the signalling frequency and its failures. No higher dimensions, just maybe a lower, impaired, fractal dimension. There are still theraputic uses for this impairment,…

This is a very interesting way to look at this. Do you have many more resources for this "interpretation" of a psychedelic experience.

I believe, the slowing down of the "clock" can be said for meditation as well in some sense. Because even in a deep meditation you lose a sense of "time" and that's when it gets slightly "psychedelic", for a lack of a better word.

One thing that is different with meditation is that the senses are somewhat rendered inactive. So that means, the feedback artifacts are generated on our internal networks, i.e. consciousness and not from external stimuli ?

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#168

Post by IIAOPSW »

mistermann wrote: post #159
IIAOPSW wrote: post #74

>first clear demonstration of a real perceptual computational advantage of psychedelic states of consciousness. I feel like this is technically true but also misleading towards the belief that there is an overall perceptual computation advantage of psychedelic states. You can maybe get a higher score on certain tests, but it comes at a loss on other tests. I'm willing to bet basic tests like an eye exam will score wo…

> It may be better for your brain to be in a psychedelic state on certain tasks, but if it was better in the general case evolution would have already made it so. Would the same not be true of delusion, psychopathy, and various other human shortcomings?

In the general case, having delusions and other psychotic issues are not selected for traits with positive outcomes for the individuals having them. Your life is hard if you have them and conventional success is rare.

They persist in the general population to an extent for the same reason other hereditary illness persists. "I would die for two brothers or 8 cousins". A gene that is to your detriment in 1/3 cases but carries an advantage in the other 2/3 is still selected for. We have lots of examples of this in other heritable disease types, though admittedly no one is quite sure what advantage there might be to you if your brother or cousin is schizophrenic (for example).

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#169

Post by di456 »

LastTrain wrote: post #163
moomoo11 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like time goes by “slower” for me ever since I did a heroic dose a few years ago. Used to be stressed the f out all the time. Now I feel like I can enjoy every full second. Crazy how much time we have in life when we just stop paying attention to the negative energies like stress and instead channel them into storage for something positive later. I’ve always been efficient and quick at learning new things and…

The problem is, of course, you have no idea if that dose is what caused the change. That change in personal outlook may have been coming your direction anyway, or you may have experienced it sooner if you hadn't been doing LSD at all.

> The problem is, of course, you have no idea if that dose is what caused the change

What problem exactly? This seems like a dismissive take on someone's positive experience.

Are your referring to the scientific problem of studying cause & effect of the psychedelic experience? Science is figuring that out.

Re: Messages that can only be understood under the influence of psychedelics

#170

Post by tuyiown »

mistermann wrote: post #156
tuyiown wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no telling what time perception is "correct" or "real". Perception is always, always false, the same way that our internal reality is imperfect. The only way to trust perception is to go through repeatable experiment and see that results conforms to prediction, eg. science. Science is the only and sole way to determine our shared reality, anything else is literally lucky heuristics, including the behavior o…

> The only way to trust perception is to go through repeatable experiment and see that results conforms to prediction, eg. science. Is this claim not self-referential? Did you apply its ~~recommended~~ necessary methodology to itself? > Science is the only and sole way to determine our shared reality, anything else is literally lucky heuristics, including the behavior of scientists. This too... plus , who will be per…

I don't think it's self referential, the whole idea holds on that if you manage to do predictions that are confirmed, you still have to assume that your perceptions are consistent across time. As an individual you can check you perceptions across time, with several people you remove yourself as a variable.

I've been extreme in the formulations, but no, you don't need other methods, repeatable experiment with accurate predictions is enough. The heuristics are quite reliable. It's just that we tend to forget/ignore that everything that what we think of being true is just a large compound of beliefs, and that the only way to validate those beliefs is to use them to make prediction, and validate it through experiments.

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