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The Wait Until 8th pledge

waituntil8th.org

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Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#201

Post by SanderNL »

prepend wrote: post #193
SanderNL wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphone social media It's disingenuous to pretend watching some documentary on planets is the same as scrolling on tiktok. These devices have two faces: one is excellent and you can learn a lot from it, the other is pure crystal meth and messed you up. I think delaying the crystal meth part is fine, but delaying access to education feels rather shortsighted.

> It's disingenuous to pretend watching some documentary on planets is the same as scrolling on tiktok. It’s disingenuous to pretend kids are only watching documentaries on planets. Especially when YouTube recommends “boobfest2023” ad a follow up. I removed YouTube from everything but the main tv because everyone my kids were watching something “normal” it went into crazy town of violence, conspiracies, and just gian…

I think YT is on the crystal meth side actually. Strangely perhaps I find Netflix more appropriate for my kids. I just let them watch a specific episode and there are no ads and the content is adequate. There is at least some moderation.

Edit: I think you are on to something with “ads”. Hate them with a passion. Those especially I regard as pure heroin being intravenously injected.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#202

Post by cataphract »

prepend wrote: post #187
rob74 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They gave one - the US Prohibition ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_Stat... )

I think that’s a bad example because it’s 100 years old and was reversed and, hopefully, is the last time the US does this. There are tons of “virtues” that aren’t resulting in laws- exercise is good, sugar is bad, coke is bad, etc etc Saying we shouldn’t encourage voluntary pledges to help our kids because it might be mandatory is probably not a good idea. The tangible benefit from the pledge seems more likely than…

Easy to find in the context of child rearing. Beating children was common, started being socially stigmatized and finally became considered child abuse.

A more recent example: the ban on plastic straws. Lots of restaurants were shunning them before they became illegal in several jurisdictions

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#203

Post by bruh2 »

scrollaway wrote: post #199
bruh2 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we talking about the same disorder? The inability to concentrate on thing that don't immediately pique my interest has costed me quite a lot. Had I gotten diagnosed and medicated earlier, I feel like I could have finished my Bachelor's, or keep my last job, or get a driver's license. I was shocked to find out that the concentration capabilities I have while high on Adderall are considered just normal for most peo…

Right. I could never hold an office job. The requirements for me are impossible to hold. So I never did it. I went the path of self reliance and built my own system in which I can work. School was torture; thankfully my parents let me drop out. My career was built by this.

Do you mind elaborating? Sounds sweet and I hope I can draw some inspiration

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#204

Post by debok »

prepend wrote: post #185
elzbardico wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes they don't know what WOULD make them happy, but most of the time they are pretty certain about what DID make them happy or unhappy. So, adjust as required. Your goal is not to eliminate all the potential for suffering and frustration in their lives, this is a lame, and impossible goal. Your goal is to enable them to deal with that in a positive and constructive way.

> Sometimes they don't know what WOULD make them happy, but most of the time they are pretty certain about what DID make them happy or unhappy. I’m not so sure about this. I’m not certain what did make me happy or unhappy. I have some theories and sometimes are really confident, but it’s hard to tell a year later out of all the things done which positively contributed and which didn’t. Also, I don’t think the goal of…

You are speaking with wisdom. I completely agree.

We must remember that kids are very inexperienced in life, sometimes it is necessary to state this obvious fact. Parents have to make decisions for our kids based on how much life-experience they have. I don't let my 3 year old decide what to have for dinner, because it would cause him to be sick very quickly. We can bring this full circle to the OP: We don't let our kids have their own smartphones before they reach their teens, and I think that is wise.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#205

Post by wpietri »

vxNsr wrote: post #168
wpietri wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that it's equivalently risky giving a 10 year old a phone or heroin?

Is this a real question? Do you have difficulty understanding metaphors?

I don't. Which is why I asked. If you mean something else, perhaps you could be so kind as to say it.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#206

Post by ndriscoll »

wpietri wrote: post #114
vxNsr wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving a child a smartphone is coming from a place of tremendous privilege. Phone plans aren’t cheap, phones aren’t cheap (at least phones that are usable aren’t). It’s baffling to me that you solved your problem by giving your child an incredibly addicting device that most child development experts compare to hard drugs.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that it's equivalently risky giving a 10 year old a phone or heroin?

Heroin no, but something like amphetamine/Adderall actually seems like a reasonable comparison to me.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#207

Post by scrollaway »

bruh2 wrote: post #203
scrollaway wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I could never hold an office job. The requirements for me are impossible to hold. So I never did it. I went the path of self reliance and built my own system in which I can work. School was torture; thankfully my parents let me drop out. My career was built by this.

Do you mind elaborating? Sounds sweet and I hope I can draw some inspiration

Very early in my life I went into freelancing. Now it’s consulting but it’s basically the same thing, just formalised.

I never hold a client for a very long time (I tried; if I do it goes badly as I’m unable to focus on it).

I hold a variety of personal projects which I work on in short bursts of time as they hold my interest vs not. I use the money I make from my regular clients to fund them.

I learned to become passionate and find interest in just about everything - I focus on figuring out what is cool or interesting about the things in front of me.

And I also learned to delegate as much as possible, especially on the things that do not interest me.

If you want I’d be happy to elaborate more in a direct call..

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#208

Post by jxidjhdhdhdhfhf »

jhanschoo wrote: post #150
devjab wrote: post #82

In Denmark we are on the brink of banning smartphones in schools. Not because we want to but because all the science point toward them being dangerous. I’m personally not on the hardliner side, but I’ve yet to see a single argument as to why children need to have access to a smartphone during class except for cases of accessibility. All of the pro phones in school voices in the debate here are from the tech industry…

I'm personally for banning phones in school, and schools should have e.g. tablets with internet access when the classes call for it, and for supervised access outside. I'm not for what this proposal sets out to do which is to completely eliminate phone access. That is, I'm in agreement with you.

What learning would require a tablet? If you want them to read something online, print it out. If you are teaching them a skill that requires a computer, that would be best done on a desktop machine in a dedicated computer room.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#209

Post by jxidjhdhdhdhfhf »

teeray wrote: post #45

> These devices are quickly changing childhood for children. Playing outdoors, spending time with friends, reading books and hanging out with family is happening a lot less to make room for hours of snap chatting, instagramming, and catching up on You Tube. I feel like this rhetoric also existed when I was in middle school, well before smartphones. The villain then was TV and violent video games, and there were simil…

Was TV really any better though? You seem to be saying "we survived so they will too" but just because you survived an environment with TV, doesn't mean that TV was harmless.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#210

Post by jxidjhdhdhdhfhf »

jhanschoo wrote: post #153
carabiner wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This time is different" I do think modern apps, adtech, and addiction engineering are devastatingly effective and different from predecessors. We need to treat these with specific care. Similar to nukes vs. conventional bombs. Adtech and recommendation algos are the WMD of the marketing world. I was recently interviewed for a job by a guy doing infra at an adtech company. He had a PhD in physics from UCLA. These are…

TV itself was and is devastatingly effective (at spreading ideology and culture), but the primary targets of influence are not children but adults.

There were lots of TV ads directed at children. Arguably they were net negatives for society.
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