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US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

reuters.com

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Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#31

Post by jakear »

taeric wrote: post #24
gonzo41 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the use of crypto again? Because I think it's kinda useless. Just like NFT's

I could ask the same for a lot of things, though? Time shares, collectible card games, collectibles at large, fashion at large, etc. Not that I can or will wholly defend crypto. That just doesn't seem like a relevant complaint. I do question the desire for everlasting permanence of the blockchain. I know we like to keep real estate deed records and such going back as far as we can, but even there we have limited util…

> Time shares

They bring the probability that you will be harassed by police/landowners/elements/civilians when residing in an area way down. Personally, I take the harassment and sleep on the street. But it's not easy and many would pay not to.

> collectible card games

You have fun when you play them. People pay to have fun.

> collectibles at large

Idk some people just get weird addictions. I put collectables at large in the same bucket as crypto, no defense there.

> fashion at large

Looking good is more likely to get you laid. People like getting laid, and will pay for it.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#32

Post by throw0101c »

TimPC wrote: post #2

Crypto companies think they don't trade securities which is clearly wrong and contradicted by their own advertising. People buy crypto without a real use for crypto because they think they can sell it for more later. Everyone under the sun knows this. It's obviously a security and failing to register should be met by SEC cases like this one.

> Crypto companies think they don't trade securities […]

I think the main debate is whether they are (in the US) securities under the SEC or commodities under the CFTC.

Though there may be related products and funds that are being traded.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#33

Post by WinstonSmith84 »

BowBun wrote: post #9
danielschonfeld wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Considering the EU is unable step up, I think you'll miss the enemy we knew after all is said and done (if there is a significant shift in the leading powers). I'm not wearing rose-tinted glasses about the past (I'm not American), but the up-and-coming alternatives seem real scary.

The EU is the same as the US: pretending to be the land of free but effectively controlled by interests, driven by hidden agendas. Some other countries don't try to pretend to be free nor pretend to work for the people, and maybe less hypocrisy is not worse (China or India). A healthy balance of competition between world powers is much welcomed.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#34

Post by wellthisisgreat »

danielschonfeld wrote: post #8
datadeft wrote: post #4

The end of an era.

[flagged]

lol I am pretty sure the GP is talking about the era of crypto swindlers who rode the good ideas of liberty, financial diversification, and such into the ground and will all hopefully pay for it

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#35

Post by dragontamer »

hirako2000 wrote: post #19
dragontamer wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article discusses Coinbase Earn, which was a staking service providing APY yields. Is that not an unregistered financial product? That's also the kind of financial product directly behind FTX, Voyager, Gemini, and Lunacoin / Celsius collapses. So we have direct evidence of a particular produce (staking) that is both unregistered and dangerous. That many Americans lost money over.

Gemini didn't collapse, and an evidence takes a bit more clarity to be treated as such. Luna is.. a coin Can't you get APY returns as a retail customer with pretty much any high street banks? In what ways is that less dangerous than going through a crypto exchange: by the fact the SEC is actively criminalising the activity rather than issuing licenses so that some customer protection via the justice system remains ou…

Ehhh, I got confused over the myriad of collapsed companies. Perhaps I shouldn't try to get better memory, but instead cryptocoin companies need to stop collapsing. Its getting difficult to remember each company's situation on an individual basis.

Gemini was sued by SEC for running unregulated securities and was forced to shut down Gemini Earn months ago. Whatever, but its just another example of the kind of products the SEC is clearly looking at.

> Luna is.. a coin

Lunacoin supported Terra, and Celsius was backing its staking product with Terra coins. Are... you unaware of the connection between Luna and Celsius?

I wrote "Lunacoin / Celsius" for a reason. This didn't even happen that long ago, so I guess I assumed people would know where I was going.

I'm trying to describe the scope of unregistered, unregulated, super-dangerous "staking" schemes that collapsed over the last year. The names I discussed are all related to staking.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#36

Post by paulpauper »

Crypto is like the worst investment ever: huge legal risk, does not hedge inflation, not a safeguard in crisis, does not benefit from tech/ai boom, does not generate profits. Only downside, no upside, no strengths, only weaknesses.

the chart is only one direction: down

The obvious weakness of bitcoin relative to QQQ demonstrates this. A daytrading pair trade method that shorts Bitcoin in market hours and goes long qqq would have cleaned house over the past year, including a huge win yesterday. i was running this and made a lot.

Who goes against the fed. government and wins? big tobacco couldn't do it. neither could the auto industry.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#37

Post by WinstonSmith84 »

tromp wrote: post #12
throw1234651234 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely unclear what the SEC is doing here at all. Why is ALGO a security and ETH is not? They do the same thing. What are the implications of this lawsuit? Completely unclear. This is vague and unhelpful. edit: Keep downvoting - the fact, with a clear example, remains.

I think ETH should have been classified as one too, due to its ICO. Making an exemption for that was a mistake...

Let's ask Gensler what are his thoughts about ETH then

https://twitter.com/sassal0x/status/1648338351832064003

Oh wait ... :-)

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#39

Post by hirako2000 »

jrm4 wrote: post #18
seydor wrote: post #14

I think it was always 100% clear that cryptocurrencies can't live within the confines of the laws of a sovereign state. Why people registered their exchanges along with the rest of the banking system ? it made zero sense from the start, as does the whole idea that cryptos can be traded in regulated capitalism. Bitcoin needs its own country (or planet) with nukes and all.

Not that I agree with the own planet thing; but yes -- it's odd. All of this was 100% predictable and should have been expected by everyone. The stated purpose of crypto was to get around this; its weird to see crypto fans "get mad" at e.g. the SEC. It's like getting mad at a shark for going after bleeding prey; it's just what was always going to happen.

Mad because some entrepreneurs makes the effort to build legitimate business entities, and what certain governments find to do is any scheme to keep them out of legitimity.

Not that crypto fans would care all that much about these businesses, but there is a need to onramp and offramp given transactions are made in their vast majority in fiat. An exchange run as a business having at least a lot at stake in ensuring continuity is one of the decent ways to get on with crypto.

If it was my call I would skip the perp and earn products to stay clear of regulators when operating in the US, but there must be stories behind closed doors that we don't easily get to know would be my guess.

Re: US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance

#40

Post by andreygrehov »

dragontamer wrote: post #5
pnpnp wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it true that the SEC wouldn’t let Coinbase register since they said Bitcoin _isn’t_ a security? It’s my understanding that Coinbase tried.

Article discusses Coinbase Earn, which was a staking service providing APY yields. Is that not an unregistered financial product? That's also the kind of financial product directly behind FTX, Voyager, Gemini, and Lunacoin / Celsius collapses. So we have direct evidence of a particular produce (staking) that is both unregistered and dangerous. That many Americans lost money over.

> That many Americans lost money over.

This requires a citation with data points, eg how many Americans lost money, how much money did they lose, etc. Because, what if there are more Americans who've made money than those who have lost?

> SEC said Coinbase has since at least 2019 made billions of dollars by handling cryptocurrency transactions, while evading the disclosure requirements meant to protect investors

This is a pure framing - it doesn't matter how much money Coinbase made. Otherwise, it means that if you don't make _billions_, you can conveniently avoid the disclosure requirements intended to protect investors. So really, they should've written something like: "Coinbase has been facilitating cryptocurrency transactions since at least 2019, while evading the disclosure requirements intended to protect investors".

While I do understand that these are the legal requirements, the protect investors "narrative" (khm-khm, requirement) is a joke. People lose money trading stocks / options / etc every day. To me, as a consumer, there is zero difference between trading AAPL on TD Ameritrade App vs trading crypto through Coinbase App. How's TD Ameritrade protecting me from losing money?

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