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The Wait Until 8th pledge

waituntil8th.org

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Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#191

Post by sokoloff »

npunt wrote: post #138
elzbardico wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, I am not telling everyone should do the same as me. I just don't want someone telling me that I should not do it. Because that's the final goal of such movements: start with "voluntary pledges", move into social stigmatization of dissidents, capture organizational rule, and then, finally, the law. The same script as the prohibition. It is an inexorable and fairly predictable movement, probably a cultural herita…

I respect that you want to make that call for your kids, I'm not in favor of one size fits all solutions. What you're describing here tho is a textbook slippery slope argument [1] in reaction to a small movement suggesting some restraint around an incredibly powerful force affecting most people on the planet. Perhaps it may lead to prohibition, but perhaps it may just lead to OS developers building better controls th…

I don’t read that as implying that conclusion, but rather closer to “if you’re not getting the outcome you want, you should change something” versus “you should do what I’m doing”.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#192

Post by [deleted] »

bobsmooth wrote: post #85
sillysaurusx wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was watching gore videos when I was 13. I bet lots of others were too. I turned out ok. Survivorship bias isn’t a great way to make an argument, but I’m skeptical of the view that the internet is so much worse now. There isn’t even a liveleak anymore. A family friend was groomed at 9yo. She was pressured into sending nude pics of herself to a 15yo. That kind of thing seems like the real danger for unsuspecting kids…

>I turned out ok. You sure? I was also a young child on the internet and I think it made me an antisocial shut in that wasn't able to relate to his peers.

[deleted]

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#193

Post by prepend »

SanderNL wrote: post #106
elzbardico wrote: post #72

This is the easy way out of the problem, but I am afraid, not the correct one. My kid has had his own tablet since 6, his own PC since 8, and his own cellular since 9. So far he hasn't turned into a domestic terrorist, and neither is he selling heroin for crypto on the dark web. Also, he has specific times when he can use his devices аnd limits on how much time. All modern OSes have some sort of parental controls bui…

Smartphone social media It's disingenuous to pretend watching some documentary on planets is the same as scrolling on tiktok. These devices have two faces: one is excellent and you can learn a lot from it, the other is pure crystal meth and messed you up. I think delaying the crystal meth part is fine, but delaying access to education feels rather shortsighted.

> It's disingenuous to pretend watching some documentary on planets is the same as scrolling on tiktok.

It’s disingenuous to pretend kids are only watching documentaries on planets. Especially when YouTube recommends “boobfest2023” ad a follow up. I removed YouTube from everything but the main tv because everyone my kids were watching something “normal” it went into crazy town of violence, conspiracies, and just giant assholes within a few videos or watching the next recommendations.

And there’s no way in YouTube to fix this. Even “YouTube Kids” ended up in garbage after a few bits.

So now I watch with my kids and work to teach them what’s worth watching. But it’s hard because YouTube is working to draw more attention and crazy stuff gets attention.

Also, it’s infuriating to keep having ads on education. I have school assignments that keep get interrupted with ads that aren’t applicable at all. I feel sorry for the company that pays to show an ad in Spanish for progressive auto insurance to my 8 year old. Is it terrible ad targeting tech or just fraud? Beats me, but no one in my house speaks Spanish or drives.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#194

Post by constantcrying »

The important thing isn't whether the child has a phone or not, but whether he/she has a circle of real friends, is engaged in social activities and manages their own responsibilities (school mainly).

Monitoring and enabling this is what good parents do and restricting access to technology can absolutely be a useful tool to fo that. Parent's who can't/won't do this will face problems in any case, phones are just one way for children to live out their problems.

But to be honest I think that schools probably should not allow phones or phone usage. Real social interaction is much too important and playing hide (the phone) and seek (the phone) with your teachers is an important life skill.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#195

Post by geocar »

sokoloff wrote: post #186
geocar wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, I wouldn't cut my parents off for disagreeing with me about morality or ethics You must mean something different than what I mean: What about someone who was molested by their parents? Should they keep contact with them? You think those people who would rape a kid should have friends and a social group that accepts them for who they are ? Is there something here you think is okay? Listen, I would judge you if…

If you meant abuse, you certainly could have been a lot more clearer than your original text that GP cited: > One day, your kids are going to tell you that you are wrong. Totally wrong. Wrong about morality and ethics. Wrong wrong. And you are going to have to believe them, or you will lose access to a part of their life forever.

> If you meant abuse, you certainly could have been a lot more clearer...

debok are telling me they can have a relationship with someone who is immoral and unethical in their opinion.

Are you saying you think abuse isn't immoral or unethical?

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#196

Post by nunuvit »

flangola7 wrote: post #78
nunuvit wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents usually don't want others, especially companies, spending all their time trying to get their kids addicted to stuff, influencing their minds, and changing their behavior. There's a lot that can go wrong with letting random assholes parent your kids more than you.

Yeah and Facebook will turn them into mindless validation seekers, video games will turn them into serial killers, and TV will turn their brains into mush - all things our parents told us which were also completely paranoid and untrue.

You're obviously not very current on this issue, and you don't have a personal stake in it, either.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#197

Post by DoubleGlazing »

I find it interesting in these comments that there is a lot of discussion as to the pros and cons of the pledge that this website proposes, but very little discussion as to the motivations behind the people who operate the campaign.

Looking at the people behind the campaign I am noticing a pattern, people who live in the similar geographic region and who are linked to other campaigns that talk about letting children be children. Plus the use of the term pledge just seems a bit puritanical amd a bit religious to me. Is it nefarious or do they have a hidden agenda? I don't know, maybe, but something about the whole operation seems a bit off to me.

I do accept that smartphones can be bad for children, but at the same time I think it is up to parents to make the decision that they feel is right for their own children. A campaign that informed parents of the pros and cons of giving their children a smartphone would seem more appropriate to me.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#198

Post by DoubleGlazing »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #141

Literally none of the evidence on the website's own "Why" page supports their suggestion: https://www.waituntil8th.org/why-wait All of the studies (bonus points for linking to news articles instead of directly to the studies) have something to do with "time spent using screens/a phone/social media", but nothing to do with age of first use. How can anyone trust this website has any basis in reality when they wrote a w…

I was wondering the same, because everything about this organization seems a bit iffy to me.

Part of me wonders is there an ulterior motive to the campaign.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#199

Post by scrollaway »

bruh2 wrote: post #128
scrollaway wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone has ADHD, is it really a disorder anymore? I say this because I have ADHD. Diagnosed very late, because it never bothered me… I just used it to my advantage all my life and I never understood how people can spend years in the same place with the same job. That, to me, sounds like the real sickness. I learned more about it since and of course there’s a spectrum to it, but still. ADHD is no doubt the #1 fac…

Are we talking about the same disorder? The inability to concentrate on thing that don't immediately pique my interest has costed me quite a lot. Had I gotten diagnosed and medicated earlier, I feel like I could have finished my Bachelor's, or keep my last job, or get a driver's license. I was shocked to find out that the concentration capabilities I have while high on Adderall are considered just normal for most peo…

Right. I could never hold an office job. The requirements for me are impossible to hold.

So I never did it. I went the path of self reliance and built my own system in which I can work.

School was torture; thankfully my parents let me drop out.

My career was built by this.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#200

Post by geocar »

npunt wrote: post #138
elzbardico wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, I am not telling everyone should do the same as me. I just don't want someone telling me that I should not do it. Because that's the final goal of such movements: start with "voluntary pledges", move into social stigmatization of dissidents, capture organizational rule, and then, finally, the law. The same script as the prohibition. It is an inexorable and fairly predictable movement, probably a cultural herita…

I respect that you want to make that call for your kids, I'm not in favor of one size fits all solutions. What you're describing here tho is a textbook slippery slope argument [1] in reaction to a small movement suggesting some restraint around an incredibly powerful force affecting most people on the planet. Perhaps it may lead to prohibition, but perhaps it may just lead to OS developers building better controls th…

> Perhaps it may lead to prohibition, but perhaps it may just lead to OS developers building better controls than the terribly weak ones we have today. Movements raise awareness, and there's lots of room for spaces in-between. After all, we never banned TVs, books, or games, and they were all in this class of problem.

Actually, "we" have banned all of those things, and continue to do so.

Do you know about promise rings? Kids kill themselves because they get raped after being told their whole life that being impure means their parents love them less. This is just another thing parents get together and organise -- see, it doesn't need to end in prohibition to cause harm, it just takes parents organising to define wrongly what wisdom means to a child.

> in reaction to a small movement suggesting some restraint around an incredibly powerful force affecting most people on the planet.

That's not what I see. I see a group of people, some well-intentioned but some others who are not, and they are organising to restrict the ability for children to learn things and to communicate with others. The well-intentioned need to be made aware that their intentions are not good enough and that children will be harmed and the future made worse because of this.

Sure, some of those people just want to ban "addictive games" or "targeted feeds", but others want to read and approve every message in and out of the house so they can behave differently in public than they do in private, and you can't let them do this.

Don't you see? It's slippery on both sides! That's why there needs to be a better way.

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