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The Wait Until 8th pledge

waituntil8th.org

51–60 of 254 posts

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#51

Things change. Once we were nomads, then we became farmers, then we moved into cities and outsourced child rearing to schools because we were at factories or offices 10 hours a day. You can't roll back change. You can try to find ways to adapt to it, to mitigate their bad effects.

…such as deferring how old people are when they are first given cell phones?

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#53
We always told our kid, "you'll get a phone when you need a phone", which was a message that was supposed to communicate that the phone was connected to increased freedom and increased responsibility. Then we found at 12 that the actual need was social integration, because he was being excluded from some social life without a phone at 12. So he got a phone.

The curse of Metcalf's law...

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#54
post #45

> These devices are quickly changing childhood for children. Playing outdoors, spending time with friends, reading books and hanging out with family is happening a lot less to make room for hours of snap chatting, instagramming, and catching up on You Tube. I feel like this rhetoric also existed when I was in middle school, well before smartphones. The villain then was TV and violent video games, and there were simil…

While I do think extreme doomerism about new technology is misguided, I also feel this hand wavy "they said it about us an we're fine!" dismissal is also misguided.

Just because TV and video games did not lead to total societal collapse does not mean they are free of negative side-effects, nor does it make these technologies necessarily comparable to any other generational-shift technology adoption. TV definitely had and has negative societal side effects. Prolonged and uninhibited video game usage definitely van have negate side effects. Same thing will likely be the case for smartphones.

I also think smartphones are a special breed since they can expose children much more easily to fringe ideology than either video games or mass media ever could thanks to gatekeeping mechanisms.

We'll never get a handle on appropriate, healthy societal relations with media technologies until we stop summarily treating them as purely negative, purely positive, or purely neutral and start doing the work of analyzing each technology and its use and potentialities in their particulars.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#55
post #45

> These devices are quickly changing childhood for children. Playing outdoors, spending time with friends, reading books and hanging out with family is happening a lot less to make room for hours of snap chatting, instagramming, and catching up on You Tube. I feel like this rhetoric also existed when I was in middle school, well before smartphones. The villain then was TV and violent video games, and there were simil…

Waaay before that it was, um, books. Kids who read books instead of playing outside were weird. The age of the 10c pulp magazine, science fiction, westerns, crime stories, they were everywhere.

And parents lamented the time spent reading them instead of doing something outside.

Just wait until our kids grow up, and their kids have a VR headset strapped to their face 24x7. They'll bemoan the time lost that was watching youtube.

As an aside, in my day it was TV, and today my kids aren't interested in TV. Not sure my parents see the irony ;)

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#56
post #27

My 5-year old nephew has access to a smart phone along with social media accounts on the major platforms. Is it healthy? Probably not. Neither was my generation binging on TV and video games. But it also gives them access to an absurd wealth of information richer than any library I had growing up. How can a kid's mind not be absolutely entranced by that sort of thing? Telling a kid that they can't have a phone when t…

This view seems a bit rosy and willfully ignorant of the actual current state of the internet. I think it will spoil most of the batch but the lucky few will come out better for it. Those kids that do have a desire for encyclopedic knowledge may be well served by a smart phone. However, most kids do not have that desire to begin with, and even those that do face problems. Unlike a traditional library, the internet is…

I was watching gore videos when I was 13. I bet lots of others were too. I turned out ok.

Survivorship bias isn’t a great way to make an argument, but I’m skeptical of the view that the internet is so much worse now. There isn’t even a liveleak anymore.

A family friend was groomed at 9yo. She was pressured into sending nude pics of herself to a 15yo. That kind of thing seems like the real danger for unsuspecting kids, and teaching them from a young age to guard themselves is the strategy I’ll be trying.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#57
post #27

My 5-year old nephew has access to a smart phone along with social media accounts on the major platforms. Is it healthy? Probably not. Neither was my generation binging on TV and video games. But it also gives them access to an absurd wealth of information richer than any library I had growing up. How can a kid's mind not be absolutely entranced by that sort of thing? Telling a kid that they can't have a phone when t…

My 10-year kid watches the usual amount of silly stuff on youtube. But from time to time I catch him watching some popular science content. One of these days he gave a very good explanation of what a black hole is during dinner.

Then paying attention to him, I found out he is a subscriber to a very entertaining young astronomer's channel and that's where he was learning all that stuff. I sit along with him and engaged with him in the content.

On the other hand that are some content producers that are absolute trash, in those cases, I gently persuade my son this is not the best content for him, well, sometimes not so gently, in the worst cases I just lay down the law that he is not to watch that channel anymore. I do it rarely enough that it still works.

It is not magic, you just need to parent, the same way you have to do in every other situation in your kid's life that doesn't necessarily involve a screen.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#58
I have to ask, how many of you fellow techies came from households where they restricted your computer and smartphone use? Would you be you or better if you had been cut off from the digital world? How often did you lie awake under the covers until 3AM on a school night figuring out how to do something cool? How often did you get to take a conversation with a friend and run with it until someone fell asleep?

I don't deny access to the digital world has risks, but I would have lost so much had my parents done a quarter of what some of you are suggesting.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#59
post #45

> These devices are quickly changing childhood for children. Playing outdoors, spending time with friends, reading books and hanging out with family is happening a lot less to make room for hours of snap chatting, instagramming, and catching up on You Tube. I feel like this rhetoric also existed when I was in middle school, well before smartphones. The villain then was TV and violent video games, and there were simil…

But also: our generation saw a dramatic increase in obesity.

Correlation is not causation. But some correlations are just too obvious to ignore.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#60
Strange. I did not have a cellphone until I was 19. I grew up to be just fine. My kid now almost 8. Does not ask for a cellphone. Kids need to be kids and have fun in other way. One thing that worked for me is I give them broken devices (electronics) and see if they can fix it. Nothing fancy. We usually go to goodwill or some after hand market. If they fix it they sell it. We do occasionally play Minecraft on a local server. That we only invite family/close friends.
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