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The Wait Until 8th pledge

waituntil8th.org

41–50 of 254 posts

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#41
post #35

I don’t think this is useful. Just put restrictions on certain websites (perhaps at the router level) and let them explore. Imagine if your parents told you not to touch books until 8th grade? Why do that to a curious child?

Sure, but the problem with the internet contra books, is its content and lack of gatekeeping.

The traditional publishing industry has a massive set of gatekeeping mechanisms around publication. People love to complain about this, but it significantly helps in ensuring the quality of information in a published book, especially from established publication houses, remains high. The internet basically has no such mechanism, and even worse, couples that with the ability to discover new bits of this low quality information at extreme rates — further, platform algorithms optimize for engagement, not information quality and the next thing you know your loved ones are running around telling you earth is flat.

You'll never be able to block every website. This is the crux of the issue, outside of the fact that constantly bombarding yourself with short fragments of totally unconnected, decontextualized experiences (a la instagram and tiktok feeds) probably directly aids in becoming something like a lite-schizophrenic.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#42
post #27

My 5-year old nephew has access to a smart phone along with social media accounts on the major platforms. Is it healthy? Probably not. Neither was my generation binging on TV and video games. But it also gives them access to an absurd wealth of information richer than any library I had growing up. How can a kid's mind not be absolutely entranced by that sort of thing? Telling a kid that they can't have a phone when t…

This view seems a bit rosy and willfully ignorant of the actual current state of the internet. I think it will spoil most of the batch but the lucky few will come out better for it. Those kids that do have a desire for encyclopedic knowledge may be well served by a smart phone. However, most kids do not have that desire to begin with, and even those that do face problems. Unlike a traditional library, the internet is…

I’m not putting forth any particular prediction. I don’t know how this will turn out (and neither does anyone else). I’m more just resigned to the fact that kids can and will have access to this technology. If their parents don’t let them their friends will

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#43
post #19

The headline caught my eye because my birthday is on the 8th ;) But to the topic. I have 3 kids and only my daughter (over ten) has a phone. We gave her an old iPhone and I disabled everything from internet to blocking foreign numbers. She has books and music access and can write to her friends. I‘m really against opening the internet at her age because I see one not the point why she would need it at that age and be…

> To be fair it where the late 90th, early 2000 ;) Internet wasn‘t even big for me.

Disclaimer: thank goodness I don't have any kids, so this is not a parenting advice. Just my own story.

I grew up around the same era and computing was a huge thing for me. I've had my first computer (ZX Spectrum 48k) when I was 6, first IBM PC-compatible when I was around 9, first dial-up Internet access around 14. I don't really remember the ages TBH (except the 6, because I left some evidence by hardcoding my age in a BASIC program), so they're plus-minus couple years.

But then Internet was different back in the day. Pay-per-minute dial-up, 14kbps on a good day, so the best available time killer was reading jokes and anecdotes from FidoNet or Usenet, offline. Endless meaningless feeds the whole day wasn't a thing. And when tech got better my interests were already ingrained in me.

Looking back, it changed the trajectory of my whole life, and in a good way. I've had all the latest tech news, talked to smart people, and was able to learn lots of things - all when I've still had that virtually infinite energy and my brain was much more agile than today. So with some luck, I was able to seize some opportunities. The history has no "if"s, but I can't imagine things would've went half as good, would I not be into computers back then.

But also, wouldn't I have that curiosity, limited attention span (any game got boring pretty fast) and innate desire to entertain myself by tinkering with whatever random thing was available, I guess it could've went nowhere.

Now, the subject at hand is drastically different - phones now and personal computers back then are hard to compare fairly. Except that my parents back then weren't always exactly fond of me setting all day and night in front some screen rather than playing with other kids (or whatever). But they tolerated it and appraised my successes.

Morale is, I think, it all depends on the kid - not on the tech - how they're gonna spend their time and where they'll head in their life. Some will create new things, some will just drown themselves in Modern Internet's firehose of shit (maybe there was something similar back in the day and I'm just blissfully unaware, hah). I'm glad my parents have provided me with things I've had, letting my energy flow into something not just non-harmful but actually somewhat useful, and that their only real interference was in indirect moral guidance by me see some good and bad examples.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#44
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This view seems a bit rosy and willfully ignorant of the actual current state of the internet. I think it will spoil most of the batch but the lucky few will come out better for it. Those kids that do have a desire for encyclopedic knowledge may be well served by a smart phone. However, most kids do not have that desire to begin with, and even those that do face problems. Unlike a traditional library, the internet is…

I’m not putting forth any particular prediction. I don’t know how this will turn out (and neither does anyone else). I’m more just resigned to the fact that kids can and will have access to this technology. If their parents don’t let them their friends will

True. Honestly, probably the best thing you could do is to start drilling solid information literacy habits, skepticism, and critical reasoning skills into kids sooner rather than later.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#45
> These devices are quickly changing childhood for children. Playing outdoors, spending time with friends, reading books and hanging out with family is happening a lot less to make room for hours of snap chatting, instagramming, and catching up on You Tube.

I feel like this rhetoric also existed when I was in middle school, well before smartphones. The villain then was TV and violent video games, and there were similar campaigns to “cut the cord” (I remember my school having a giant fake plug a bunch of kids pulled of of a socket symbolically). The idea then, as now, was that kids are spending less time outdoors, reading books, etc.

I think this is a perennial reaction of parents to a changing world and the disparity between their childhood and their children’s childhoods.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#46
post #19

The headline caught my eye because my birthday is on the 8th ;) But to the topic. I have 3 kids and only my daughter (over ten) has a phone. We gave her an old iPhone and I disabled everything from internet to blocking foreign numbers. She has books and music access and can write to her friends. I‘m really against opening the internet at her age because I see one not the point why she would need it at that age and be…

>zombie“ kids walking around only having conversations in little chunks between smartphone breaks As an adult this is me and my friends, I don't see a problem with it. It's not like we're ignoring each other. I'm not sure why everyone is so hostile to kids having internet. I grew up watching YouTube and browsing Reddit on my phone too, that hasn't hurt me any.

Parents usually don't want others, especially companies, spending all their time trying to get their kids addicted to stuff, influencing their minds, and changing their behavior. There's a lot that can go wrong with letting random assholes parent your kids more than you.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#48
Hard disagree. My first phone was an iPod Touch in Grade 4, and by Grade 5 I had already jailbroken it with one of my friends. By Grade 6, I built my own computer, got a phone with data, and by Grade 7 was running Linux on my desktop computer, which I used in Grade 8 to compile an Android ROM from source. I'm now an intern for an Android app development company. If I didn't get a phone until Grade 8, not only would I have had way less exposure to technology as a hobby, but I wouldn't have been able to enjoy playing mobile games with friends.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#49
post #19

The headline caught my eye because my birthday is on the 8th ;) But to the topic. I have 3 kids and only my daughter (over ten) has a phone. We gave her an old iPhone and I disabled everything from internet to blocking foreign numbers. She has books and music access and can write to her friends. I‘m really against opening the internet at her age because I see one not the point why she would need it at that age and be…

> and can write to her friends.

Good lord...

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#50
Things change. Once we were nomads, then we became farmers, then we moved into cities and outsourced child rearing to schools because we were at factories or offices 10 hours a day. You can't roll back change. You can try to find ways to adapt to it, to mitigate their bad effects.
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