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Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

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Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#261

Post by dmitrygr »

jsheard wrote: post #259
virtuallynathan wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has 8 x DDR4 3200, so about 204GB/s of memory bandwidth, 1/4th of the M2 Ultra.

Unless somethings dramatically changed with the M2, Apples chips can't leverage their full memory bandwidth in CPU-only workloads so comparing their numbers to those of a discrete CPU isn't especially meaningful. When Anandtech tested the "400GB/sec" M1 Max the most throughput they could coax out of it via the CPU was 224GB/sec. https://www.anandtech.com/show/17024/apple-m1-max-performanc... The huge bandwidth number…

Which means that M1 (previous gen) REAL numbers beat maximal theoretical numbers of ampere.

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#262

Post by SxC97 »

miklosz wrote: post #159

Interesting, only single CPU. I was thinking, that for Mac Pro they will go somehow with multiple processors and some magic with shared memory access solved in OS. Interesting though, how the external GPU support will look like if you have PCI and if it will be expanded to the TB4 as well.

Yup, I was waiting for eGPU support to come back to the mac this year but it looks like no dice :/

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#263

Post by tedmiston »

version_five wrote: post #217
zbowling wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ML is subset of AI. AI that is inclusive of other concepts and it's not a buzzword. It's valid to call anything ML as AI. Sure there is a lot of AI hype but it's not some made up marketing jargon.

Not anymore in common usage. ML is roughly "learning from data". AI has had some historical meanings, but in the last 10 years became first a marketing term for Deep Learning (a subset of ML) and now a term for LLMs and Diffusion Models (and the like). Which are subsets of deep learning. There still exist people who refer to AI as the general study of computerizing intelligence, just like somebody somewhere is still…

I'm not really following what your argument for "ML is not a subset of AI in common usage" here is exactly.

AI as an umbrella term has been the usage in the whole CS field for decades upon decades.

A few marketing people trying to hijack and misuse the term over the past 5–10 years didn't just magically change the meaning that has been very well established for a long time.

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#264

Post by eikenberry »

brundolf wrote: post #256
zbowling wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ML is subset of AI. AI that is inclusive of other concepts and it's not a buzzword. It's valid to call anything ML as AI. Sure there is a lot of AI hype but it's not some made up marketing jargon.

AI as a term is poorly-defined, and conjures associations that range from sorta-accurate to totally fictional. ML is a specific set of concrete technologies, so it's a better and more precise term in most contexts

AI is a general term with very fuzzy meaning, much like intelligence. This is on purpose as we don't understand these things well and their definitions/usage reflect that.

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#265

Post by voxelghost »

halostatue wrote: post #174
Rebelgecko wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AI was pre-trained before the game shipped. Kinda like how you can have a conversation with ChatGPT and it will eventually forget what you've "taught" it

Pre-programmed.

Which leads us to the question; in the biological world, are actions stemming from instinct, but that looks intelligent to the observer, also intelligence?

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#266

Post by WatchDog »

USB5 wrote: post #179
WWLink wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Overall I don't think it's horrendously priced as some of the previous Mac workstation components could get, but at the same time, unless you have a very specific use case or specifically need macOS, it's not exactly compelling. It is "good enough" to finally round out the lineup though. It's such a specific use case that I'm not entirely sure what the use case even is. Capturing off an SDI camera? Great! Why do we…

I am probably the minimal target market for the mac pro m2 ultra. I am an artist and I do a lot of 3D rendering. I think it's a great price and I would love to own one, but I wouldn't even consider it unless it had support for Nvidia GPUs. Good GPU-based 3D rendering engines need CUDA. Even with the ones that don't, GPU rendering on a 4090 is 4x-5x times more performant than on an M2 Max, and building my own PC allow…

No idea if the operating system will support nvidia graphics cards on arm.

However, even if it does, the mac pro only has one 8 pin power connector and two 6 pin connectors.

The 4090 needs a 16 pin input, and I've only ever seen adapters that convert 2x8pin to 16. Maybe you could get one card running, but any more than that and you will need some kind of hacky external power supply setup.

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#267

Post by USB5 »

Melatonic wrote: post #254
USB5 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am probably the minimal target market for the mac pro m2 ultra. I am an artist and I do a lot of 3D rendering. I think it's a great price and I would love to own one, but I wouldn't even consider it unless it had support for Nvidia GPUs. Good GPU-based 3D rendering engines need CUDA. Even with the ones that don't, GPU rendering on a 4090 is 4x-5x times more performant than on an M2 Max, and building my own PC allow…

Seriously - they do not even talk about GPU in the PCIe slot - then again they do not expressly rule it out either.

I think it's ruled out by the fact that Nvidia would need to release macOS drivers, and there is no realistic chance of them doing so without Apple's support.

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#269

Post by [deleted] »

WatchDog wrote: post #266
USB5 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am probably the minimal target market for the mac pro m2 ultra. I am an artist and I do a lot of 3D rendering. I think it's a great price and I would love to own one, but I wouldn't even consider it unless it had support for Nvidia GPUs. Good GPU-based 3D rendering engines need CUDA. Even with the ones that don't, GPU rendering on a 4090 is 4x-5x times more performant than on an M2 Max, and building my own PC allow…

No idea if the operating system will support nvidia graphics cards on arm. However, even if it does, the mac pro only has one 8 pin power connector and two 6 pin connectors. The 4090 needs a 16 pin input, and I've only ever seen adapters that convert 2x8pin to 16. Maybe you could get one card running, but any more than that and you will need some kind of hacky external power supply setup.

[deleted]

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#270

Post by brundolf »

eikenberry wrote: post #264
brundolf wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI as a term is poorly-defined, and conjures associations that range from sorta-accurate to totally fictional. ML is a specific set of concrete technologies, so it's a better and more precise term in most contexts

AI is a general term with very fuzzy meaning, much like intelligence. This is on purpose as we don't understand these things well and their definitions/usage reflect that.

Right, but we (humanity) understand the purpose-made ML that Apple talked about today just fine, which is why it's better not to use a fuzzy term
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