macOS 14 will support JPEG XL • Hacker News Board

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#31

Post by jez » Mon, Jun 05, 2023, 10:18 PM UTC

amoerie wrote: post #2

As a radiology software developer: please please let JPEG XL become a thing. I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. JPEG XL is a game changer for 16 bit lossless images. The technical landscape for these kinds of images today is barren.

> I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind.

I take this to suggest that Chrome actively decided against implementing JPEG XL? Did they consider supporting it and reject support for it, or has it simply not been prioritized, but still might be prioritized one day?

If the decision was intentional: did they state a reason why?

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#32

Post by csnover » Mon, Jun 05, 2023, 10:19 PM UTC

jez wrote: post #31

amoerie wrote: post #2

As a radiology software developer: please please let JPEG XL become a thing. I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. JPEG XL is a game changer for 16 bit lossless images. The technical landscape for these kinds of images today is barren.

> I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. I take this to suggest that Chrome actively decided against implementing JPEG XL? Did they consider supporting it and reject support for it, or has it simply not been prioritized, but still might be prioritized one day? If the decision was intentional: did they state a reason why?

From April: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/04/free-software-group-...

Discussed several times previously on HN:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35589179

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33399940

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33563378

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#33

Post by iamakulov » Mon, Jun 05, 2023, 10:20 PM UTC

qingcharles wrote: post #3

And Google just (sadly) pulled support from Chrome. Your move, Google.

Relevant thread, for those who’re curious: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=117805...

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#34

Post by derefr » Mon, Jun 05, 2023, 10:22 PM UTC

jez wrote: post #31

amoerie wrote: post #2

As a radiology software developer: please please let JPEG XL become a thing. I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. JPEG XL is a game changer for 16 bit lossless images. The technical landscape for these kinds of images today is barren.

> I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. I take this to suggest that Chrome actively decided against implementing JPEG XL? Did they consider supporting it and reject support for it, or has it simply not been prioritized, but still might be prioritized one day? If the decision was intentional: did they state a reason why?

They did all the work required to implement it, sat around for a few months, and then removed it, before anyone else even noticed it was there / had a chance to start integrating it.

My personal conspiracy theory is that some Google engineer who works on Chrome, came up with "JPEG XL support" as a feature they could work on, pushed it through to prod, patted themselves on the back, and forgot about it; but this was all done without first getting sign-off from whoever at Google is trying to push for WebP to be a thing. When that person or group noticed "Chrome now supports JPEG XL", they got that support ripped out.

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#35

Post by zamadatix » Mon, Jun 05, 2023, 10:30 PM UTC

qingcharles wrote: post #3

And Google just (sadly) pulled support from Chrome. Your move, Google.

Firefox came to the conclusion they didn't really care too so it's not just Google that is iffy about it. With Apple pushing it now... maybe that will change things in the long run?

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#36

Post by crazygringo » Mon, Jun 05, 2023, 10:32 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #20

amoerie wrote: post #2

As a radiology software developer: please please let JPEG XL become a thing. I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. JPEG XL is a game changer for 16 bit lossless images. The technical landscape for these kinds of images today is barren.

Does it really matter? These days decoding image with JS or Wasm should be fine. It's not video.

Images are opened and used in a lot of places that aren't browsers.

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#37

Post by cameldrv » Mon, Jun 05, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #5

amoerie wrote: post #2

As a radiology software developer: please please let JPEG XL become a thing. I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. JPEG XL is a game changer for 16 bit lossless images. The technical landscape for these kinds of images today is barren.

As a mirrorless photographer who wants to publish photos on the web that look like they came out of a mirrorless camera I want JPEG XL. In trials I've done, AVIF works well for a throwaway splash image for a blog but compression results are not so impressive compared to JPEG or WEBP if you want the image to hold up under close inspection. On the other hand there is something that seems almost infantile about image su…

Yes image codecs are a user space thing, but a Mac or iOS app probably loads images using the Swift Image or UIImage class and passes it a filename, and then these same objects get passed to the display widgets to render. If the UI toolkit that ships with the OS supports a format, it will just work with most all of the apps that use the system UI toolkit.

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#38

Post by kstrauser » Mon, Jun 05, 2023, 10:36 PM UTC

amoerie wrote: post #2

As a radiology software developer: please please let JPEG XL become a thing. I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. JPEG XL is a game changer for 16 bit lossless images. The technical landscape for these kinds of images today is barren.

I am suuuper ignorant on the subject, but is this something that could replace DICOM?

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#39

Post by asddubs » Mon, Jun 05, 2023, 10:37 PM UTC

kps wrote: post #7

PaulHoule wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mirrorless photographer who wants to publish photos on the web that look like they came out of a mirrorless camera I want JPEG XL. In trials I've done, AVIF works well for a throwaway splash image for a blog but compression results are not so impressive compared to JPEG or WEBP if you want the image to hold up under close inspection. On the other hand there is something that seems almost infantile about image su…

As an ‘operating system’ OS X includes user space tools like the Finder and Quick Look in particular where vendor support is helpful.

also crucially, safari

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#40

Post by Dylan16807 » Mon, Jun 05, 2023, 10:38 PM UTC

zamadatix wrote: post #13

ajconway wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AVIF does not support progressive encoding.

Assuming you meant "de"coding: it does, albeit I like JPEG XL's more. To me, that point seems an argument for things being the other way around anyways (i.e. general-purpose but not a good delivery format).

> Assuming you meant "de"coding

Is there something wrong with the other phrasing? You need to have a progressively encoded image before you can decode it progressively.