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macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

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Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#11

Post by ajconway »

zamadatix wrote: post #8
kps wrote: post #4

Excellent. JPEG XL is a usable general-purpose image format, not just a passive delivery format like WebP and AVIF.

Could you explain how so? JPEG XL seems cool enough but what about e.g. AVIF makes it "just a passive delivery format" instead of a general-purpose image format? It handles color spaces, lossless, lossy, up to 12 bit, up to 4:4:4/RGB, transparency, and animation at a good quality/size ratio so what's so drastically different about JPEG XL to move them to separate categories?

AVIF does not support progressive encoding.

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#12

Post by woah »

PaulHoule wrote: post #5
amoerie wrote: post #2

As a radiology software developer: please please let JPEG XL become a thing. I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. JPEG XL is a game changer for 16 bit lossless images. The technical landscape for these kinds of images today is barren.

As a mirrorless photographer who wants to publish photos on the web that look like they came out of a mirrorless camera I want JPEG XL. In trials I've done, AVIF works well for a throwaway splash image for a blog but compression results are not so impressive compared to JPEG or WEBP if you want the image to hold up under close inspection. On the other hand there is something that seems almost infantile about image su…

Dumb question, but why is OS or browser support necessary? Couldn't an HTML canvas element and some JS that can parse the file format display any kind of image that you might want?

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#13

Post by zamadatix »

ajconway wrote: post #11
zamadatix wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain how so? JPEG XL seems cool enough but what about e.g. AVIF makes it "just a passive delivery format" instead of a general-purpose image format? It handles color spaces, lossless, lossy, up to 12 bit, up to 4:4:4/RGB, transparency, and animation at a good quality/size ratio so what's so drastically different about JPEG XL to move them to separate categories?

AVIF does not support progressive encoding.

Assuming you meant "de"coding: it does, albeit I like JPEG XL's more. To me, that point seems an argument for things being the other way around anyways (i.e. general-purpose but not a good delivery format).

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#14

Post by Gigachad »

chungy wrote: post #6
qingcharles wrote: post #3

And Google just (sadly) pulled support from Chrome. Your move, Google.

With the only justification being "nobody wanted it", a plainly false statement. WebP isn't good enough. AVIF isn't good enough. JPEG XL is good enough.

Their justification was more that adding it would be committing a lot of hardware and software vendors to support it which would be very expensive for not enough gain.

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#15

Post by kps »

zamadatix wrote: post #8
kps wrote: post #4

Excellent. JPEG XL is a usable general-purpose image format, not just a passive delivery format like WebP and AVIF.

Could you explain how so? JPEG XL seems cool enough but what about e.g. AVIF makes it "just a passive delivery format" instead of a general-purpose image format? It handles color spaces, lossless, lossy, up to 12 bit, up to 4:4:4/RGB, transparency, and animation at a good quality/size ratio so what's so drastically different about JPEG XL to move them to separate categories?

I think 12-bit colour stops it being adopted for ‘master’ images intended for editing. The current top comment says that 16-bit depth is a requirement for radiology. Also, I've read that its lossless encoding is often very poor — larger than PNG.

(I didn't downvote, BTW; it's a reasonable question.)

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#17

Post by ajconway »

zamadatix wrote: post #13
ajconway wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AVIF does not support progressive encoding.

Assuming you meant "de"coding: it does, albeit I like JPEG XL's more. To me, that point seems an argument for things being the other way around anyways (i.e. general-purpose but not a good delivery format).

I stand (partially) corrected: https://github.com/AOMediaCodec/libavif/pull/640

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#18

Post by bitwize »

chungy wrote: post #6
qingcharles wrote: post #3

And Google just (sadly) pulled support from Chrome. Your move, Google.

With the only justification being "nobody wanted it", a plainly false statement. WebP isn't good enough. AVIF isn't good enough. JPEG XL is good enough.

Now that Apple supports it, people will want it.

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#19

Post by bick_nyers »

amoerie wrote: post #2

As a radiology software developer: please please let JPEG XL become a thing. I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. JPEG XL is a game changer for 16 bit lossless images. The technical landscape for these kinds of images today is barren.

Ex-radiology software developer here, and seconded! J2K is good, but here are some advantages of JXL in the context of medical imaging:

- Better compression ratios

- Ability to modify effort of lossless compression (good for real time transcoding)

- Multi-threaded encode and decode

- Far superior progressive decoding (great for low bandwidth scenarios, just stream in the lossless quality over time)

Re: macOS 14 will support JPEG XL

#20

Post by vbezhenar »

amoerie wrote: post #2

As a radiology software developer: please please let JPEG XL become a thing. I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. JPEG XL is a game changer for 16 bit lossless images. The technical landscape for these kinds of images today is barren.

Does it really matter? These days decoding image with JS or Wasm should be fine. It's not video.
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