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Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

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Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#31

Post by Loquebantur »

nradov wrote: post #28
Loquebantur wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hearsay" is a derogatory term used to disparage evidence. It is entirely unscientific, as evidence is not ignored solely based on the messenger. You have to thoroughly evaluate the context, regardless of your personal preconceptions. The guy has done a seven hour interview with Ross Coulthart, that is due to come out this week. He is reported to have such photos, documents, etc. This story is bigger than Watergate b…

None of that constitutes actual evidence. Let's see some artifacts.

Evidence in real life is accumulative, not "holy grail style", like in the movies. You build a case step by step, systematically establishing a context. Here you already missed all the prior foundational work.

On top of it you pretend to be able to judge the validity of "artifacts". That is mere posturing.

You miss the slightly more important point of having been lied to your entire life by the government about fundamental topics, which is beginning to unravel here.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#32

Post by lisasays »

nradov wrote: post #28
Loquebantur wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hearsay" is a derogatory term used to disparage evidence. It is entirely unscientific, as evidence is not ignored solely based on the messenger. You have to thoroughly evaluate the context, regardless of your personal preconceptions. The guy has done a seven hour interview with Ross Coulthart, that is due to come out this week. He is reported to have such photos, documents, etc. This story is bigger than Watergate b…

None of that constitutes actual evidence. Let's see some artifacts.

Exactly. Sure, let's have people come forward and show us what they got, or what they've seen.

Until then -- all I'm saying is: C'mon, people -- hold your horses.

We're scientists here, after all.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#33

Post by Timon3 »

lisasays wrote: post #13

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of uniq…

Of course evidence would be much better (though I'm not sure what kind of evidence I would actually trust). But if the story is true, it makes sense that we're not seeing anything: given that they're talking about an arms race with other countries, the US would not want to show any details that adversaries might not already know. Since the US government looked over everything they wouldn't allow actual evidence to be released.

I'm not saying this is true or false, but if it's true, we'd expect no actual evidence.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#34

Post by lisasays »

Loquebantur wrote: post #31
nradov wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that constitutes actual evidence. Let's see some artifacts.

Evidence in real life is accumulative, not "holy grail style", like in the movies. You build a case step by step, systematically establishing a context. Here you already missed all the prior foundational work. On top of it you pretend to be able to judge the validity of "artifacts". That is mere posturing. You miss the slightly more important point of having been lied to your entire life by the government about funda…

Evidence in real life is accumulative,

Right -- and so far there's an accumulation of precisely zero.

On top of it you pretend to be able to judge the validity of "artifacts".

I defer largely to (legitimate) experts, actually. But as of yet: there are no artifacts to evaluate.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#35

Post by Loquebantur »

lisasays wrote: post #30
blazespin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's expert testimony. I can't believe I have to explain that on HN...

By someone with no scientific credentials whatsoever -- and who presents no evidence. I mean sure -- he's a great guy, and has served his country and all. But still.

Why on earth would the whistleblower have to be a scientist here? That's utter nonsense.

This guy has worked exactly where it is necessary in order to get hold of the claimed information, in a faculty with the necessary clearances.

Again, you are putting the cart before the horse by demanding "evidence" of some mystical quality, while entirely ignoring the information that is actually presented.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#36

Post by lisasays »

Timon3 wrote: post #33
lisasays wrote: post #13

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of uniq…

Of course evidence would be much better (though I'm not sure what kind of evidence I would actually trust). But if the story is true, it makes sense that we're not seeing anything: given that they're talking about an arms race with other countries, the US would not want to show any details that adversaries might not already know. Since the US government looked over everything they wouldn't allow actual evidence to be…

So lack of evidence it itself -- a form of evidence?

I'm not sure what to say to that.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#38

Post by Loquebantur »

lisasays wrote: post #32
nradov wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that constitutes actual evidence. Let's see some artifacts.

Exactly. Sure, let's have people come forward and show us what they got, or what they've seen. Until then -- all I'm saying is: C'mon, people -- hold your horses. We're scientists here, after all.

This guy is doing exactly that, coming forward and showing what he's got.

What you are is unclear to me.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#39

Post by lisasays »

Loquebantur wrote: post #35
lisasays wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By someone with no scientific credentials whatsoever -- and who presents no evidence. I mean sure -- he's a great guy, and has served his country and all. But still.

Why on earth would the whistleblower have to be a scientist here? That's utter nonsense. This guy has worked exactly where it is necessary in order to get hold of the claimed information, in a faculty with the necessary clearances. Again, you are putting the cart before the horse by demanding "evidence" of some mystical quality, while entirely ignoring the information that is actually presented.

This guy has worked exactly where it is necessary in order to get hold of the claimed information, in a faculty with the necessary clearances.

In a world of agencies famously riddled with incompetence, whose people have not only have been shown to be liars, time and time again -- but guess what: Their very purpose is to lie.

That's why we need something more to seek our teeth into than some whistleblower who says he's seen reports about such and such.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#40

Post by PKop »

Loquebantur wrote: post #35
lisasays wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By someone with no scientific credentials whatsoever -- and who presents no evidence. I mean sure -- he's a great guy, and has served his country and all. But still.

Why on earth would the whistleblower have to be a scientist here? That's utter nonsense. This guy has worked exactly where it is necessary in order to get hold of the claimed information, in a faculty with the necessary clearances. Again, you are putting the cart before the horse by demanding "evidence" of some mystical quality, while entirely ignoring the information that is actually presented.

He could simply be lying, pushing a propaganda message of the state. Why would you without evidence believe he is being truthful whatsoever?

There is geopolitical advantage to making the world think you have advanced weapons tech, or that it exists and has to be found somewhere.

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