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Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

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Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#21

Post by blazespin »

spfzero wrote: post #15
lisasays wrote: post #13

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of uniq…

Its hard to imagine so many people could have known about this for so long, yet it remained secret. I expect you could keep something like an assassination secret since everyone who knows about it is probably in some way complicit. Wouldn't be the case here. Also of course the energy required to get to Earth from somewhere else, for an organism that used any kind of "vehicle" we could recognize as such, would be enor…

Well, did it remain secret? Seems like this has been openly recognized for quite awhile, but propaganda forces at play made it seems like you're a nutjob to believe it.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#22

Post by Loquebantur »

capableweb wrote: post #20
spfzero wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its hard to imagine so many people could have known about this for so long, yet it remained secret. I expect you could keep something like an assassination secret since everyone who knows about it is probably in some way complicit. Wouldn't be the case here. Also of course the energy required to get to Earth from somewhere else, for an organism that used any kind of "vehicle" we could recognize as such, would be enor…

Worth remembering that if in 2010 you claimed that the US government was spying on everyone via everything, you'd be called a conspiracy-nut, we now know that it was true, what so many people were claiming before that. I agree that probably there needs to be more evidence than "trust me, I've done this for a long time" in order for us to assert there is extra-terrestrial intelligence. But, I wouldn't believe it's fal…

This isn't just "some guy claiming whatever".

Not only is there an enormous backstory attached that people willfully choose to remain ignorant to, all kinds of people holding active positions in the highest relevant places are corroborating this.

Even more importantly perhaps, part of the story is a decades-long disinformation program conducted against the US population and government itself, by rouge elements in the intelligence community.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#23

Post by lisasays »

Loquebantur wrote: post #17
lisasays wrote: post #13

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of uniq…

That is blatant ignorance. More specifically, you are entirely ignoring the context here. > Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record. > The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a vetera…

That's not evidence. That's hearsay.

Fragments, please. Or photos, or at least reasonably credible scientific reports describing these fragments. Or at least something resembling, you know -- first-hand evidence. Otherwise there's nothing to talk about here.

Can't believe I have to explain this on HN.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#24

Post by blazespin »

lisasays wrote: post #23
Loquebantur wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is blatant ignorance. More specifically, you are entirely ignoring the context here. > Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record. > The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a vetera…

That's not evidence. That's hearsay. Fragments, please. Or photos, or at least reasonably credible scientific reports describing these fragments. Or at least something resembling, you know -- first-hand evidence . Otherwise there's nothing to talk about here. Can't believe I have to explain this on HN.

No, it's expert testimony. I can't believe I have to explain that on HN...

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#25

Post by Loquebantur »

lisasays wrote: post #23
Loquebantur wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is blatant ignorance. More specifically, you are entirely ignoring the context here. > Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record. > The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a vetera…

That's not evidence. That's hearsay. Fragments, please. Or photos, or at least reasonably credible scientific reports describing these fragments. Or at least something resembling, you know -- first-hand evidence . Otherwise there's nothing to talk about here. Can't believe I have to explain this on HN.

"Hearsay" is a derogatory term used to disparage evidence. It is entirely unscientific, as evidence is not ignored solely based on the messenger. You have to thoroughly evaluate the context, regardless of your personal preconceptions.

The guy has done a seven hour interview with Ross Coulthart, that is due to come out this week. He is reported to have such photos, documents, etc.

This story is bigger than Watergate by orders of magnitude. You playing ignorant here is ridiculous.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#26

Post by the_only_law »

lisasays wrote: post #23
Loquebantur wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is blatant ignorance. More specifically, you are entirely ignoring the context here. > Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record. > The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a vetera…

That's not evidence. That's hearsay. Fragments, please. Or photos, or at least reasonably credible scientific reports describing these fragments. Or at least something resembling, you know -- first-hand evidence . Otherwise there's nothing to talk about here. Can't believe I have to explain this on HN.

HN has effectively been taken over by a bunch of middle aged losers desperate to realize some sci fi dreams they had as children. You can also see it in both the ridiculous yet arrogantly confident predictions of AI utopias or dystopias that are basically just something they ripped out of a book or movie.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#27

Post by blazespin »

Look, I'm as skeptical as anyone, but please watch your rebuttal.

When has there ever been a senior official with a significant reputation coming out like this?

That in itself is 'extraordinary' evidence.

Is this proof that life is out there? No, but if you're not updating your priors, you're not rational.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#28

Post by nradov »

Loquebantur wrote: post #25
lisasays wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not evidence. That's hearsay. Fragments, please. Or photos, or at least reasonably credible scientific reports describing these fragments. Or at least something resembling, you know -- first-hand evidence . Otherwise there's nothing to talk about here. Can't believe I have to explain this on HN.

"Hearsay" is a derogatory term used to disparage evidence. It is entirely unscientific, as evidence is not ignored solely based on the messenger. You have to thoroughly evaluate the context, regardless of your personal preconceptions. The guy has done a seven hour interview with Ross Coulthart, that is due to come out this week. He is reported to have such photos, documents, etc. This story is bigger than Watergate b…

None of that constitutes actual evidence. Let's see some artifacts.

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#29

Post by lisasays »

capableweb wrote: post #20
spfzero wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its hard to imagine so many people could have known about this for so long, yet it remained secret. I expect you could keep something like an assassination secret since everyone who knows about it is probably in some way complicit. Wouldn't be the case here. Also of course the energy required to get to Earth from somewhere else, for an organism that used any kind of "vehicle" we could recognize as such, would be enor…

Worth remembering that if in 2010 you claimed that the US government was spying on everyone via everything, you'd be called a conspiracy-nut, we now know that it was true, what so many people were claiming before that. I agree that probably there needs to be more evidence than "trust me, I've done this for a long time" in order for us to assert there is extra-terrestrial intelligence. But, I wouldn't believe it's fal…

Worth remembering that if in 2010 you claimed that the US government was spying on everyone via everything, you'd be called a conspiracy-nut, we now know that it was true, what so many people were claiming before that.

For one thing your assumption here just isn't true. You might have been called that in major media outlets -- but within the tech community it had been widely acknowledged (since the late 90s or so) that such surveillance was most likely happening. And precursors of such technology were referenced in congressional hearings back in the 70s. This was all discussed openly and there was nothing conspiratorial about the topic at all.

For another -- just because certain things in the past that have been derided as conpiracy-fodder and then turned out to be true (MKULTRA, say) doesn't mean that some other thing X (that you happen to find nifty to believe in at the moment) just might be true, or will also be validated as such some day.

In short -- the presence "conspiracy-nut" stigma about something has no bearing on its scientific validity whatsoever. Either for or against.

But, I wouldn't believe it's false just based on "it couldn't have been hidden for this long".

No - one wisely judges them to be most likely false based on (1) lack of physical evidence, (2) Occam's Razor. Not because of what you're saying (which doesn't have any bearing on the topic at all).

Re: Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

#30

Post by lisasays »

blazespin wrote: post #24
lisasays wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not evidence. That's hearsay. Fragments, please. Or photos, or at least reasonably credible scientific reports describing these fragments. Or at least something resembling, you know -- first-hand evidence . Otherwise there's nothing to talk about here. Can't believe I have to explain this on HN.

No, it's expert testimony. I can't believe I have to explain that on HN...

By someone with no scientific credentials whatsoever -- and who presents no evidence.

I mean sure -- he's a great guy, and has served his country and all. But still.

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