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Our right to challenge junk patents is under threat

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Re: Our right to challenge junk patents is under threat

#11

Post by jpollock »

jpollock wrote: post #4
gavinhoward wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Take Action" buttons take you to a page with both the rules and a way to comment on them.

Thanks! I assumed "Take Action" was a simple form, and I didn't want to do that until I read what I was taking action about.

When looking at the proposed rules, I think this is the problematic bit (search for "standing"):

"The changes under consideration would make clear that the Board would discretionarily deny any petition for IPR or PGR filed by an entity that: (1) is a for-profit entity; (2) has not been sued on the challenged patent or has not been threatened with infringement of the challenged patent in a manner sufficient to give rise to declaratory judgment standing; (3) is not otherwise an entity that is practicing, or could be alleged to practice, in the field of the challenged patent with a product or service on the market or with a product or service in which the party has invested to bring to market; and (4) does not have a substantial relationship with an entity that falls outside the scope of elements (1)–(3)."

Re: Our right to challenge junk patents is under threat

#12

Post by acomjean »

paddw wrote: post #5

I assume this change is related to the patent office wanting to reduce its workload? Funding probably should be increased. Patent nonsense ends up costing everyone a LOT more in the long run.

I'm pretty sure the patent office is funded by fees, so its in their interest to keep the applications coming. They also seem to avoid penalties even when their bad patents are overturned.

"The USPTO is a demand-driven, fee funded, performance-based organization with a commitment to delivering reliable IP protection and information to its various stakeholders; including serving inventors, entrepreneurs, and businesses in the U.S. and around the world." [1]https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/fy21pbr....

Re: Our right to challenge junk patents is under threat

#13

Post by BSEdlMMldESB »

so which is it? "patents" being used by trolls? or American Corporations protecting their investments?

I remember when I realized why software patents are not going away any time soon; it was the same thought that I had when I tried to consider the quantity (amount) of dollars represented as 'valuable assets' in IBM's finances; assets which are just software patents.

Re: Our right to challenge junk patents is under threat

#14

Post by gregman1 »

myshpa wrote: post #6

Why Software Patents are Bad, Period. https://caseymuratori.com/blog_0027 Patents are out of control, and they’re hurting innovation https://www.learnliberty.org/blog/patents-are-out-of-control... Economic and Game Theory Against Intellectual Monopoly https://web.archive.org/web/20120121014753/https://levine.ss... PATENTS AND INNOVATION IN ECONOMIC HISTORY https://gwern.net/doc/economics/2016-moser.pdf Historical rec…

There are no software patents in EU (maybe even in the whole Europe) with exception for specially designed hardware. Idk how that works.

Re: Our right to challenge junk patents is under threat

#15

Post by pclmulqdq »

jpollock wrote: post #9
paddw wrote: post #5

I assume this change is related to the patent office wanting to reduce its workload? Funding probably should be increased. Patent nonsense ends up costing everyone a LOT more in the long run.

My reading is that it's probably related to an extortion attempt where a firm went after VLSI and Intel? https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/blackmail-at-the-uspto-dir...

After reading the proposed rule changes, I'm not so sure it's bad, and I'm also not sure it hits the EFF in any meaningful way (unless the EFF is hopelessly corrupt, which I guess is a possibility). The biggest thing at issue is that it protects small entities from spurious IPRs (ie IPRs from parties not being sued) from for-profit companies while litigation is ongoing, which seems kind of reasonable. IPRs are expensive, so this is an easy way to either drive a small entity bankrupt during a high-stakes lawsuit or extort a payout.

The EFF isn't a for-profit entity, so if they have problems with this rule, it might mean that they are so closely connected to one or more for-profit companies that they are treated as for-profit. That honestly makes the EFF sound suspect. I am assuming this comes from their ideological anti-IP stance rather than corruption, but either way it doesn't come off as an honest take on the new rules.

Re: Our right to challenge junk patents is under threat

#16

Post by dathinab »

If I where a US citicens I would want whoever is resposible for it to be fired and investigated for corruption.

Because you need to either be severely incompetent to a point of by far not being qualified to do your job or corrupt to come up with that.

If you do a bit research into the patent system it becomes clear that if anything challenging being to difficult and expensive is a problem not the other way around.

Re: Our right to challenge junk patents is under threat

#17

Post by judge2020 »

myshpa wrote: post #6

Why Software Patents are Bad, Period. https://caseymuratori.com/blog_0027 Patents are out of control, and they’re hurting innovation https://www.learnliberty.org/blog/patents-are-out-of-control... Economic and Game Theory Against Intellectual Monopoly https://web.archive.org/web/20120121014753/https://levine.ss... PATENTS AND INNOVATION IN ECONOMIC HISTORY https://gwern.net/doc/economics/2016-moser.pdf Historical rec…

I'm starting to believe that all patents are at best ineffective, and at worse harmful in a globalized world, because it's not like airpods clones off aliexpress are actually being stopped at the port all too often.

Re: Our right to challenge junk patents is under threat

#18

Post by pclmulqdq »

gregman1 wrote: post #14
myshpa wrote: post #6

Why Software Patents are Bad, Period. https://caseymuratori.com/blog_0027 Patents are out of control, and they’re hurting innovation https://www.learnliberty.org/blog/patents-are-out-of-control... Economic and Game Theory Against Intellectual Monopoly https://web.archive.org/web/20120121014753/https://levine.ss... PATENTS AND INNOVATION IN ECONOMIC HISTORY https://gwern.net/doc/economics/2016-moser.pdf Historical rec…

There are no software patents in EU (maybe even in the whole Europe) with exception for specially designed hardware. Idk how that works.

There are no software patents in the US either, as of 2014, except ones that have a physical effect on the world. Compression, encryption, and data structures are basically the only allowed software patents.

Re: Our right to challenge junk patents is under threat

#19

Post by bityard »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10
myshpa wrote: post #6

Why Software Patents are Bad, Period. https://caseymuratori.com/blog_0027 Patents are out of control, and they’re hurting innovation https://www.learnliberty.org/blog/patents-are-out-of-control... Economic and Game Theory Against Intellectual Monopoly https://web.archive.org/web/20120121014753/https://levine.ss... PATENTS AND INNOVATION IN ECONOMIC HISTORY https://gwern.net/doc/economics/2016-moser.pdf Historical rec…

I’m not sure radicalising this debate helps anyone. We are trying for a narrow victory of preserving IPR. Turning that into a broader argument about software patents plays into the opposition’s hands.

As long as people keep focusing solely on these "narrow victories" in order to simply maintain the broken status quo, the broader abuse of the patent system to serve as a legal anti-competitive moat in service of large companies who can afford expensive lawyers will continue. It's not radical to believe that.

Re: Our right to challenge junk patents is under threat

#20

Post by myshpa »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10
myshpa wrote: post #6

Why Software Patents are Bad, Period. https://caseymuratori.com/blog_0027 Patents are out of control, and they’re hurting innovation https://www.learnliberty.org/blog/patents-are-out-of-control... Economic and Game Theory Against Intellectual Monopoly https://web.archive.org/web/20120121014753/https://levine.ss... PATENTS AND INNOVATION IN ECONOMIC HISTORY https://gwern.net/doc/economics/2016-moser.pdf Historical rec…

I’m not sure radicalising this debate helps anyone. We are trying for a narrow victory of preserving IPR. Turning that into a broader argument about software patents plays into the opposition’s hands.

Are you speaking/working for EFF? If yes, I'll delete my comment.

Patents are abominations and should not exist. I don't see how informing the public about their negatives benefits patent trolls.

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