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Thousands of early-career NIH researchers forming union for first time

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Re: Thousands of early-career NIH researchers forming union for first time

#21
post #17
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Underpayment would lead to less inflation if anything.

[citation needed] Inflation might not be driven by wages but by company profits: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/24/an-economic...

Where do you think company profits come from if not from customers?

Re: Thousands of early-career NIH researchers forming union for first time

#22
post #15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service." - Franklin Roosevelt https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/letter-the-resolut...

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Trump was more left-wing than Bill Clinton, it's just that one party has actually turned into extremists while ironically labeling the other side extremists.

Re: Thousands of early-career NIH researchers forming union for first time

#23
post #4

What is there possibly for a bunch of employees who have lived with status quo for so many years all of a sudden want to change? It is typically new employees who come in (from elsewhere?) that feel like changing everything around them. And then either they get those changes, or get comfortable with the things that exist, or leave. Edit: Reasons for unions historically have been better working conditions and better w…

Or you know, instead of crying about change like you are. Existing employees finally cracked. The STM part of STEM has been seriously underpaid and meager living for years. All of that is coming home to roost with inflation and cost of living spiraling out of control.

The E part of STEM is typically the commercial application of STM, so why would that be a surprise? This is the nature of research: most efforts will be pretty useless, and even the useful ones will need significant additional focus, effort, investment, and labor to create a viable commercial product.

Re: Thousands of early-career NIH researchers forming union for first time

#24

It's not going to work. The NIH has no equivalent private sector competitor. For every single researcher, there are 10 other graduates and staff who would be willing to do their job for a fraction of the cost. This is a supply and demand problem, a funding problem. Strip congress and the medical board of their ability to control the number of residency spots and you will see the free market correct itself. Most biolo…

The union is actually for the 10 other people who will fill this staff position.

> The union, called NIH Fellows United, would include about 4,800 research fellows, such as graduate students and postdocs, who hold non-permanent staff positions at the agency’s 27 institutes and centres.

Re: Thousands of early-career NIH researchers forming union for first time

#25

It's not going to work. The NIH has no equivalent private sector competitor. For every single researcher, there are 10 other graduates and staff who would be willing to do their job for a fraction of the cost. This is a supply and demand problem, a funding problem. Strip congress and the medical board of their ability to control the number of residency spots and you will see the free market correct itself. Most biolo…

From the article, they may not be staff. Many research agencies have "fellow" or "associate" positions that aren't full time staff. Similar to a contractor but used for postdoc, graduate students, etc. Sometimes on the path to FTE status, but not always. Could also be non-citizens on a visa for their term. Pay (think stipend, not salary) for these positions are more than what a grad student would get from their unive…

That's one of the struggles for the union to conduct. Part-time, junior, temporary staff - are staff, and should be recognized as staff, with the full set of rights and benefits befitting their position and their needs as people and as professionals.

And the same goes for junior research staff at universities (assistants, fellows, post-docs etc).

Re: Thousands of early-career NIH researchers forming union for first time

#26
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed] Inflation might not be driven by wages but by company profits: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/24/an-economic...

Where do you think company profits come from if not from customers?

Some central banks take measures in order to reduce the spending of consumers in order to calm down inflation. Which means less money for customers. So maybe it makes sense?

Re: Thousands of early-career NIH researchers forming union for first time

#27

What is there possibly for a bunch of employees who have lived with status quo for so many years all of a sudden want to change? It is typically new employees who come in (from elsewhere?) that feel like changing everything around them. And then either they get those changes, or get comfortable with the things that exist, or leave. Edit: Reasons for unions historically have been better working conditions and better w…

> but those were for labor unions. Desk jockeys had different motivations...

Desk labor is labor. And us desk jockeys most definitely need to unionize to improve and/or prevent deterioration of our working conditions and wages (and when I say "our wages" I don't mean just the star developers, I mean everyone). Similarly, all laborers, at the desk and at the assembly line, strive for better treatment of our work efforts, the ability to perform meaningful and less alienated work, etc.

Re: Thousands of early-career NIH researchers forming union for first time

#28
post #10
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service." - Franklin Roosevelt https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/letter-the-resolut...

It's an interesting argument, suggesting that government could simply pay workers 1c per year and that any attempt to address this by the workers by - say - a strike would be "unthinkable and intolerable"

Re: Thousands of early-career NIH researchers forming union for first time

#29
post #6

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The problem being that public spending for new shiny projects is much easier to sell to the public than required maintenance. Without a strong voice how would public workers ever get enough leverage to earn even cost of living adjustments?

Re: Thousands of early-career NIH researchers forming union for first time

#30
post #13

NIH should build more institutes in cheaper areas (eg not NoVa). It’s a win win since it will help revitalize poorer areas of America and save on costs. It will also tilt more senators/congresspeople to vote for NIH funding, similar to military base funding

Military personnel move where you tell them, manufacturing jobs can train people up just about anywhere, but research isn’t so simple.

It’s a real chicken and egg problem around local talent. Bethesda/Rockville/Baltimore has several different organizations doing medical research which makes the attractive locations for researchers to live. Locate in say Boise Idaho and positions are open for longer and you will need to compromise more in terms of talent.

On top of this there’s a huge pool of government contractors which again provides significant advantages.

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