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WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

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Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#111

Post by wizofaus »

vihren wrote: post #104
wizofaus wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can accuse UBI of many things but unfair it is clearly not, hence the "universal". Everyone gets the same amount - but the assumption is most will then choose to work and earn extra income on top of that.

How is it fair? You do give the same amount to everyone, but you do not take the same from everyone - you have to take more from those who chose to work. Hence the unfair part.

Taxation is quite separate though - we all have the same access to government provided services and infrastructure regardless of how much income tax we pay, I don't see anybody arguing that's unfair.

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#112

Post by guy98238710 »

2devnull wrote: post #47
gchamonlive wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Quit the bad ones, join the good ones. This is why universal income is extremely important, so that people can pursue better jobs without risking being vulnerable.

Some people don’t want to work. They’ve told me so. I think UBI would destroy these people, like easy wealth does to the newly rich. A better solution is to focus on worker’s rights and labor regulations. Of course that opens the internationalism question, but so too would ubi.

Huh, UBI has its own moral panic. Never thought I would see that, but it seems obvious in retrospect. Both capitalism and communism worship work like some insane religion. If you work, you are a good person. If you don't, you are scum.

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#113

Post by guy98238710 »

mantas wrote: post #67
oneplane wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What leads you to believe that people who do not want to work are desirable to have in the workplace? UBI also doesn't give you wealth, it gives you basics, and overal that's much cheaper than dragging down an entire team or department. At the same time, we currently have plenty of people who do not want to work and do indeed not work, that will not change regardless of what you implement. I also think that happy and…

They ain't desirable. But who wants to pay them do nothing? Many people ain't happy to cover existing welfare. Increase welfare and even more people would feel it's unfair.

You know, it's not just labor that contributes to economic output. Natural resources and accumulated knowledge and technology contribute too. Both belong to everyone with equal share. Giving people what their share of resources and technology has produced is only fair.

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#114

Post by cmrdporcupine »

notbeuller wrote: post #109

During covid when WFH, I received a legitimate looking SMS message with a link, so rather than clicking it, I curl --verbose'd it (and one subsequent redirect) before seeing it was an obvious phishing / troll. The next day, my VPN & SSO was disabled with instructions to contact corporate security. My use of curl had been detected and while they didn't accuse me of anything, they claimed that they wanted to make sure…

Yikes, that would be a clear sign to me of a... culture fit... problem at work. And I'd immediately begin looking elsewhere.

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#115

Post by qwytw »

lannisterstark wrote: post #74
trw_phy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think people would learn after the covid money printer that giving people paper with funny pictures doesn't actually do anything. UBI, like Roko's basilisk, is the magical thinking of our age. We need a working government to meet people's needs because the market sure as hell can't. That's a lot harder than just brrrr .

UBI isn't covid money printer though. You're misrepresenting it either intentionally or by mistake to discredit it. UBI would, and should, replace current welfare schemes. We already have those in place.

> UBI would, and should, replace current welfare schemes. We already have those in place.

But that would still require a huge amount of additional money if you want UBI to be above subsistence levels.

Otherwise the amount received by current welfare recipients would have to be cut several times. Also what about disabled people and others who can't work? Would they get the same amount as everyone?

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#116

Post by maxerickson »

joezydeco wrote: post #6

Now that Microsoft owns LinkedIn, I wouldn't trust them one bit to keep your activity there away from your employer. It would be really easy to correlate your sentiment analysis on Teams/email against your LI messaging traffic.

To what end? Like I'm not saying that there won't be people doing it, I just don't understand why a company that valued it's employees would be doing sentiment analysis on LinkedIn vs the many other ways they could approach the relationship.

Is the idea that a workforce comprised of people that obey or work around the stupid unwritten rules is going to be more effective?

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#117

Post by notyourwork »

moooo99 wrote: post #101
jupp0r wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany famously just passed legislation that forces employers to record working hours for all employees.

That is a non-issue regarding privacy and the intention is to ensure compliance with employee protection laws capping the maximum weekly working time. You write down when you started working and you write down when you stop. Some employers automatically subtract your legally required break time, some want you to enter it manually.

Is there a concept equivalent to US, salary employee? If so what are they expected to work?

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#118

Post by qwytw »

hmmSceptical wrote: post #44
wmf wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The productivity metrics aren't speculative - they are measurable. So measure the output, not the mouse, not the keyboard, not the chair, etc.

"output" only matters if your company is paid by "results" and isn't based on billable hours, otherwise ... "output" doesn't matter. Law firms would love every case to be solved in 2 hours if they still got the same $ value from a case that dragged on for 6 months.

Their clients are not paying for lawyers to sit on their chairs and click their keyboards. Billable hours is still completed specific work (even though it might not lead anywhere and/or help winning the case/etc. directly)

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#119

Post by eropple »

wizofaus wrote: post #111
vihren wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it fair? You do give the same amount to everyone, but you do not take the same from everyone - you have to take more from those who chose to work. Hence the unfair part.

Taxation is quite separate though - we all have the same access to government provided services and infrastructure regardless of how much income tax we pay, I don't see anybody arguing that's unfair.

Those with the most to lose benefit the most from having a just and civil society, but that realization never seems to percolate through.

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#120

Post by eropple »

charlie0 wrote: post #94
tigrezno wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if you have the opportunity to stop working and keep being paid, wouldn't you take it? I'm sure the mayority of people don't want to work. It's not a natural thing to do.

I'm sure those people don't want to give up their iPhones and AC either (which also are not "natural").

And so they would...continue...to work...for things that cost more than food and shelter do?
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