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WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

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Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#31

Post by transpute »

Silhouette wrote: post #23
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #20

Nearly 20 years ago we used to install monitoring software to tell if a user's mouse or keyboard hadn't been used in a while. More and more places use traffic inspection "for security". Desks now use sensors to tell when warm bodies are near. Doesn't matter whether you're working from office or in the home, surveillance is here to stay. Good businesses should only care if work is getting accomplished. Bad businesses…

Meanwhile in 2023 a favourite argument of management who want everyone back in the office is that it's essential to have those casual interactions around the watercooler. When of course your keyboard and mouse won't be used at all.

If an employer can snoop keyboard and mouse, there's a non-zero chance that unauthorized remote attackers can do the same.

Watercooler surveillance requires physical access for cameras and lip-reading, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36188381

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#33

Post by geek_at »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #20

Nearly 20 years ago we used to install monitoring software to tell if a user's mouse or keyboard hadn't been used in a while. More and more places use traffic inspection "for security". Desks now use sensors to tell when warm bodies are near. Doesn't matter whether you're working from office or in the home, surveillance is here to stay. Good businesses should only care if work is getting accomplished. Bad businesses…

> surveillance is here to stay

in the United States. Europe has very strict rules about surveiling employees.

Example: In Austria we are not allowed to use some of the functions that Azure-AD joined computers would be capable of because employers _might_ push remote control software the user hasn't agreed to

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#34

Post by reustle »

transpute wrote: post #31
Silhouette wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile in 2023 a favourite argument of management who want everyone back in the office is that it's essential to have those casual interactions around the watercooler. When of course your keyboard and mouse won't be used at all.

If an employer can snoop keyboard and mouse, there's a non-zero chance that unauthorized remote attackers can do the same. Watercooler surveillance requires physical access for cameras and lip-reading, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36188381

All of the mainstream tools that I've seen for this just monitor activity, not the specific keystrokes / mouse pointer coordinates.

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#35

Post by Silhouette »

kmatthews812 wrote: post #22
JoBrad wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a manager, I feel that using metrics from productivity tools to measure productivity is lazy and counter productive. If your team is so large that you can’t measure productivity without using these cheats, then your team is too large for you to manage. But you’re also ignoring the fact that people work in different ways, and may be just as productive without generating the metrics you’re looking for. And before yo…

"As a manager, I feel that using metrics from productivity tools to measure productivity is lazy and counter productive." I agree, if that is the only way you measure productivity. These tools create a more holistic view of what a person does at work and should not be the sole measure of performance. In reality, what they make visible are the people who do little to nothing for 3+ days. Graphs that shows no work for…

In reality, what they make visible are the people who do little to nothing for 3+ days.

I've worked in places where many metrics of this type would indicate I did little to nothing for 3+ weeks. Some of the most important projects I've ever worked on in terms of business impact have been in that category.

The difference in outcomes IME is almost always whether you're working with good management and good communication so everyone understands what's really going on and it's no problem or you're working with bad management and poor communications and something of great value is incorrectly assessed as having little value leading to worse outcomes for everyone.

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#36

Post by Tyr42 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #30
threatofrain wrote: post #2

Always request a separate laptop and phone for work, and always create a separate set of accounts.

Run it on a separate VLAN or on separate network hardware, as well.

So like, how does that work. I've got a pair of Asus routers with one acting as an access point (AI mesh). Would I need to buy new routers? Do I daisy chain the routers or can I reuse the wifi ap? Or put Merlin on my existing ones?

I'm in tech but these network suggestions are all quite opaque to me.

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#37

Post by hmmSceptical »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #20

Nearly 20 years ago we used to install monitoring software to tell if a user's mouse or keyboard hadn't been used in a while. More and more places use traffic inspection "for security". Desks now use sensors to tell when warm bodies are near. Doesn't matter whether you're working from office or in the home, surveillance is here to stay. Good businesses should only care if work is getting accomplished. Bad businesses…

> Bad businesses will continue to use draconian methods to try to squeeze productivity rather than foster it

What about jobs that aren't creative like coding or graphic design?

Some jobs are simply "sit in your chair and do work". The productivity metrics aren't speculative - they are measurable.

You may argue "these are jobs for AI" - but realistically alot of jobs are a way off from this.

Why shouldn't the "productivity" of these staff be measured? Because you don't like it?

If you work at "big shipping co" and "box" 1 item a day and your colleagues do 100, should you not be fired?

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#38

Post by zadler »

heavyset_go wrote: post #30
threatofrain wrote: post #2

Always request a separate laptop and phone for work, and always create a separate set of accounts.

Run it on a separate VLAN or on separate network hardware, as well.

Also pick it up with tongs and keep it in a faraday cage when not using

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#39

Post by belltaco »

jmclnx wrote: post #32

I wonder if vscode on the cloud will do the same. For me it does not matter since the systems I work with are rather old school (line AIX) or fully open (Linux).

What does 'fully open' have to do with this? Office 365 could do the exact same things on Linux as reported in the article.

Re: WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep (2022)

#40

Post by gedy »

hmmSceptical wrote: post #37
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #20

Nearly 20 years ago we used to install monitoring software to tell if a user's mouse or keyboard hadn't been used in a while. More and more places use traffic inspection "for security". Desks now use sensors to tell when warm bodies are near. Doesn't matter whether you're working from office or in the home, surveillance is here to stay. Good businesses should only care if work is getting accomplished. Bad businesses…

> Bad businesses will continue to use draconian methods to try to squeeze productivity rather than foster it What about jobs that aren't creative like coding or graphic design? Some jobs are simply "sit in your chair and do work". The productivity metrics aren't speculative - they are measurable. You may argue "these are jobs for AI" - but realistically alot of jobs are a way off from this. Why shouldn't the "product…

> If you work at "big shipping co" and "box" 1 item a day and your colleagues do 100, should you not be fired?

Those are results, and not measured by "is their ass in this chair for 8 hours?", same as monitoring keyboard and mouse usage.

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