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The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

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Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#351

Post by moneywoes »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #257
candiddevmike wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do hiring for small companies, no one is paying that much. 130-150k is base for seniors. Also seeing a decrease in US based developer jobs, lots of offshoring happening. I'm halfway considering moving to Costa Rica and running a firm down there.

They must be very small because I don't know of anyone hiring senior devs in that range. Even those smaller, early stage companies I know are offering at least 150-190k base, and they struggle to hire. However if you're dealing with dev roles that are being actively outsourced I suspect you're dealing with an entirely different class of software jobs.

Where are you finding these jobs?

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#352

Post by moneywoes »

haldujai wrote: post #138
trashface wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This viewpoint is just plain crazy. If you worked in tech you'd be totally disposable, just like all the rest of us programming drones. Hit 40-50 and boom, unless you've transitioned into management, suddenly no one wants to hire you, or if they do its half of what you were making before. Your MD degree and the AMA literally writing laws on your behalf limits labor supply competition like nothing in tech. You may hav…

Physicians are disposable too, look at what happened with primary care, nephrology, anesthesia and is starting in radiology where private equity firms move in and outsource physician care to allied health professions and create an “eat what you kill environment”. In other countries like Canada it’s also near impossible to get a job in a surgical specialty (and until 2 years ago other ones like radiology), especially…

Any reading on these PE driven radiology changes?

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#353

Post by moneywoes »

trashface wrote: post #123
the_d3f4ult wrote: post #62

Being a physician is a horrible career move right now. As a former Math/CS major turned eye surgeon, I can't help but think about how much easier my life would be had I stuck with tech. It's hard to understand exactly how hard the job is until you've lived it. I saw 40 patient's in clinic today in 8 hours without lunch or any kind of downtime and then spent 2 hours at the hospital because a patient needed an emergent…

This viewpoint is just plain crazy. If you worked in tech you'd be totally disposable, just like all the rest of us programming drones. Hit 40-50 and boom, unless you've transitioned into management, suddenly no one wants to hire you, or if they do its half of what you were making before. Your MD degree and the AMA literally writing laws on your behalf limits labor supply competition like nothing in tech. You may hav…

Curious, are there any other fields with laws built to limit competition. Lawyers?

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#354

Post by moneywoes »

lostlogin wrote: post #76
the_d3f4ult wrote: post #62

Being a physician is a horrible career move right now. As a former Math/CS major turned eye surgeon, I can't help but think about how much easier my life would be had I stuck with tech. It's hard to understand exactly how hard the job is until you've lived it. I saw 40 patient's in clinic today in 8 hours without lunch or any kind of downtime and then spent 2 hours at the hospital because a patient needed an emergent…

I know an eye surgeon who wrote a piece of software that streamlined the referral process for cataract surgery. It’s a seriously big deal in his world. When domain experts write make their own tools, the results are so much better than when an outsider does it for them.

Curious if you have a link

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#355

Post by BlackjackCF »

dangwhy wrote: post #309
JJMcJ wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 50 year old physician or lawyer, if they are good, is at the absolute top of their profession and can 90% expect work another ten or twenty or more years still earning top dollar. A 50 year old non-management programmer? Look forward to having 23 year olds asking if you know what an array is for the rest of your work life.

> A 50 year old non-management programmer? Look forward to having 23 year olds asking if you know what an array is for the rest of your work life. Fuck. That made anxious. I am close to that age. Also, my middle manager friends are having much harder time finding a job than programmer types. Don't know if its just them or if its a trend.

Don’t be anxious.

The best programmers I’ve ever worked with and deeply respect are the ones in their late 50s, early 60s. They’re unflappable when it comes to outages. They’ve seen it all. They work more sustainably and methodically to get stuff done.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#356

Post by singleshot_ »

the_d3f4ult wrote: post #62

Being a physician is a horrible career move right now. As a former Math/CS major turned eye surgeon, I can't help but think about how much easier my life would be had I stuck with tech. It's hard to understand exactly how hard the job is until you've lived it. I saw 40 patient's in clinic today in 8 hours without lunch or any kind of downtime and then spent 2 hours at the hospital because a patient needed an emergent…

Respectfully, the "reason to do the job" is that you help people see. That's pretty cool. I understand the rest of the experience is pretty poor, but you do have a pretty fair amount of "helping people" potential at work.

If you worked in tech, you could help people see... advertisements. That's potentially more lucrative but it's gotta be depressing after a life of that to reflect on one's life work.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#357

Post by singleshot_ »

weatherlite wrote: post #184
JJMcJ wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 50 year old physician or lawyer, if they are good, is at the absolute top of their profession and can 90% expect work another ten or twenty or more years still earning top dollar. A 50 year old non-management programmer? Look forward to having 23 year olds asking if you know what an array is for the rest of your work life.

I don't agree about lawyers actually. If you haven't made it into something close to partner level or have extremely valuable knowledge and skillset you'll be seen as a liability. There's plenty of people in their late 20s to early 40s who will be preferred over you. Same goes for most jobs actually, doctors are the outliers. For now...wait till A.I makes progress in medical circles.

One fact I can add to your knowledge is that at my firm, the lawyers who have been practicing longest have the highest billable rate.

One more is that I very, very rarely ask any 29 year old lawyers at my firm any questions, although I love them dearly. When I need someone to review my work or answer a ticklish question, I seek out 72 year olds and ask them. I'm not sure who clients prefer but when it comes to legal problems I prefer elder lawyers.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#358

Post by singleshot_ »

haldujai wrote: post #307
sarchertech wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to value, when my wife interviews for a job (she’s a physician) they fly her out and spend a day taking her to see the sights, so they convince here how great the city is. Then they take her out to a fancy dinner and woo her some more. When I interview at a new job as a very senior engineer (and relatively well known I in my area), I get to jump through 7 rounds of interviews where someone asks me the e…

> When it comes to value, when my wife interviews for a job (she’s a physician) they fly her out and spend a day taking her to see the sights, so they convince here how great the city is. Then they take her out to a fancy dinner and woo her some more. Interesting, are these in underserved areas? I just went through interviewing for a new job and despite being in an in-demand subspecialty with desperate employers the…

Because technology has no educational pathway. Sure, you can go to a college and study algorithms or math for a while, but plenty of people with "good degrees" can't code. Plenty of people with no degree can.

It's also kind of challenging to tell an eye surgeon whom you are interviewing to do an eye surgery if you're really not sure he knows how to do it or not.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#359

Post by singleshot_ »

catchnear4321 wrote: post #245
candiddevmike wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that places value seniority and experience so much more in medicine vs tech. Things change daily in both fields--new procedures, new findings--yet tech seems to have far more ageism. Why is an older doctor so much more valuable than an older developer?

> Why is an older doctor so much more valuable than an older developer? which would you take with you on a one way trip to a desert island? that’s a meaningless question, it assumes their jobs are their siloed experience, and that nothing outside of job is real. training. licensing. you can’t just go become a doctor. yes, there can be new doctors, cheaper, maybe better, maybe not. but the funnel is finite. got a comp…

> which would you take with you on a one way trip to a desert island?

How long are we going to be there?

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#360

Post by mavelikara »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #341
mavelikara wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So hours are long, and the number of Drs in the market are increasing. Are the number of patients increasing, or the time consumed by each increasing, or unemployment among Drs increasing?

> Are the number of patients increasing The number of patients is literally never ending. It's a property of the decentralized public health system. If you have resources to spare, patients will be sent to you. No matter how much time and money you pour into healthcare, it's never enough. It's as if demand instantly scaled to exceed capacity. > or the time consumed by each increasing On the contrary, it's reducing. C…

Thank you for explaining.

> Brazilian software developers working for american companies for a salary that would be inhumane to an american put doctors here to shame. I'm talking 2-4x, depending on the company and exchange rate. It wasn't like this before.

It sounds to me that this is really the root cause of your unhappiness, rather than more doctors entering the market. We had a similar situation in India too, but over time the wealth gets spread around. The software engineers will too, after all, need healthcare and they will be willing to spend more on it given their higher disposable incomes.

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