The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#331

Post by mavelikara » Sun, Jun 04, 2023, 3:46 AM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #318

mavelikara wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They flooded the job market with doctors. US doctors have to put in long hours because there aren't enough of them. Are things different in your country?

Yes. Same hours but nosediving pay because we now have an infinite amount of deeply indebted doctors fresh off medical school competing for the same jobs. Wages are literally decreasing year upon year for the average brazilian medic. Workload is also increasing because healthcare managers are starting to interfere more and more in patient care. They want 10 minute consults.

So hours are long, and the number of Drs in the market are increasing. Are the number of patients increasing, or the time consumed by each increasing, or unemployment among Drs increasing?

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#332

Post by cscurmudgeon » Sun, Jun 04, 2023, 4:30 AM UTC

NemoNobody wrote: post #239

bruce511 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central planning, in this context, is not the same as political philosophy. So be careful not to conflate the two. Central planning does happen in free-market economies all the time, at various levels. An HOA for example is a hyper-local example of central planning. The larger the scale the stronger the lever, and hence the more variable the result. The "free market" brings all kinds of its own oroblems of course - I…

Haha, I love "Central Planning" is viewed as a bad thing by most normal Americans - like the commies are the only ones doing it. It takes a huge amount of "Central Planning" for our economy to function - as its fundamentally based on the concept of delayed gratification. Those concepts are very very similar. Any American that has worked and budgeted towards any financial goal should be able to see that for what it is…

Planning isn't the problem, planning to the point of forcing others is the problem.

USSR stooped so low as to plan vacations of its workers: where they could go and with whom they could go.

https://daily.jstor.org/workers-of-the-world-take-pto/

Not all central planning is the same. An American budgeting their finances is not the same as USSR deciding what the entire country should do during their vacations.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#333

Post by iancmceachern » Sun, Jun 04, 2023, 6:08 AM UTC

the_d3f4ult wrote: post #62

Being a physician is a horrible career move right now. As a former Math/CS major turned eye surgeon, I can't help but think about how much easier my life would be had I stuck with tech. It's hard to understand exactly how hard the job is until you've lived it. I saw 40 patient's in clinic today in 8 hours without lunch or any kind of downtime and then spent 2 hours at the hospital because a patient needed an emergent…

These people might:

https://www.arcscan.com/

I can make an intro if you're serious

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#334

Post by NemoNobody » Sun, Jun 04, 2023, 6:13 AM UTC

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #332

NemoNobody wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, I love "Central Planning" is viewed as a bad thing by most normal Americans - like the commies are the only ones doing it. It takes a huge amount of "Central Planning" for our economy to function - as its fundamentally based on the concept of delayed gratification. Those concepts are very very similar. Any American that has worked and budgeted towards any financial goal should be able to see that for what it is…

Planning isn't the problem, planning to the point of forcing others is the problem. USSR stooped so low as to plan vacations of its workers: where they could go and with whom they could go. https://daily.jstor.org/workers-of-the-world-take-pto/ Not all central planning is the same. An American budgeting their finances is not the same as USSR deciding what the entire country should do during their vacations.

It's the same here - we just have more options and corporations tell us where to go and what to wear, watch and do.

The corporate world is much more efficient tho

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#335

Post by iancmceachern » Sun, Jun 04, 2023, 6:14 AM UTC

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #144

carabiner wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, is anyone hiring an ophthalmologist with CS and Math degrees? As someone who recently transitioned to a tech role, I'd urge you to focus on applying to companies related to your existing fields (ophthalmology, medicine, surgery, and their derivatives) who happen to be seeking SWE's, rather than general tech companies. Especially Series A, B, C startups. Look up all the companies that make your equipment…

This. This is best advice. I can't imagine there isn't some software company that could use a doctor-SWE combo. Usually SWE struggle not knowing the subject matter they are coding about. It is the subject matter experts that they need.

This, I work with these people all day. There are tons of medical device and medtech companies that need people with both medical and technical backgrounds.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#336

Post by iancmceachern » Sun, Jun 04, 2023, 6:16 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #243

MobiusHorizons wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, most of the outrage against the medical system is that it is so expensive, and has such variable outcomes. I don’t think overworking doctors (even more than they already are) is the solution, but I do feel something has to give. What do you think is the problem. What could be productively changed that would make access to healthcare more affordable?

The simplest thing we could do to make access to healthcare more affordable is that Congress could increase Medicare funding for residency program slots. That would boost the number of practicing physicians within a few years. https://savegme.org/

The simplest thing they could do would be to get rid of insurance companies. They add no value to the system, but take plenty

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#337

Post by iancmceachern » Sun, Jun 04, 2023, 6:17 AM UTC

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #119

the_d3f4ult wrote: post #62

Being a physician is a horrible career move right now. As a former Math/CS major turned eye surgeon, I can't help but think about how much easier my life would be had I stuck with tech. It's hard to understand exactly how hard the job is until you've lived it. I saw 40 patient's in clinic today in 8 hours without lunch or any kind of downtime and then spent 2 hours at the hospital because a patient needed an emergent…

Your income is relatively insane (multiple 100k), you have ultimate job security even in old age, opening a private practice makes your income essentially open ended depending on how much hard work you put in, you can help your loved ones and yourself to better navigate health care, will always receive priority treatment and probably have the job with the highest social standing that exists. I don‘t know what it is w…

Like farmers

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#338

Post by iancmceachern » Sun, Jun 04, 2023, 6:19 AM UTC

mvanlonden wrote: post #71

the_d3f4ult wrote: post #62

Being a physician is a horrible career move right now. As a former Math/CS major turned eye surgeon, I can't help but think about how much easier my life would be had I stuck with tech. It's hard to understand exactly how hard the job is until you've lived it. I saw 40 patient's in clinic today in 8 hours without lunch or any kind of downtime and then spent 2 hours at the hospital because a patient needed an emergent…

We’re hiring founding engineers at Develop Health! https://jobs.lever.co/develophealth.io?utm_source=hackernews...

Yes! The prior authorization process is so broken! I've been battling Blie Shield for months in a effort to fix theirs

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#339

Post by cosmodisk » Sun, Jun 04, 2023, 6:42 AM UTC

dangwhy wrote: post #309

JJMcJ wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 50 year old physician or lawyer, if they are good, is at the absolute top of their profession and can 90% expect work another ten or twenty or more years still earning top dollar. A 50 year old non-management programmer? Look forward to having 23 year olds asking if you know what an array is for the rest of your work life.

> A 50 year old non-management programmer? Look forward to having 23 year olds asking if you know what an array is for the rest of your work life. Fuck. That made anxious. I am close to that age. Also, my middle manager friends are having much harder time finding a job than programmer types. Don't know if its just them or if its a trend.

No need to. If your experience is solid, there's plenty of work for consultants. Not those types, who walk in and get told to create a CRUD app, but those who can advise on tech, its implications on the business, the risks, etc.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#340

Post by pcrh » Sun, Jun 04, 2023, 7:13 AM UTC

poirot2 wrote: post #161

was_a_dev wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a problem. The single largest issue that isn't properly being disscussed (especially during the strikes) is retention. The NHS is a leaking bucket of highly skilled doctors and nurses. Anecdotally, my wife is a doctor at a large tertiary hospital. Asking all the completing Foundation junior doctors what their career plans are, 80% of them have obtained either an Australian or New Zealand Visa and were s…

Completely true. Killer stats on this: 1 in 7 U.K. trained doctors work abroad The number of GP training places are up 2000 and number of qualified GPs hasn’t changed due to poor retention. I could go on and on. U.K. medicine is a shitshow of poor pay and poor retention. Even the cheap imported doctors are only staying a short time due to the chaos of the system and better ops back home once NHS training is on your C…

The main justifiable complaint by junior doctors is that of being over-worked. Unfortunately the OP and the link above suggest that this is a problem partly self-inflicted by the profession itself.

There isn't a great risk of emigration by UK-trained doctors, as evidenced by an over-subscription for training places. Further, OECD data show that when adjusted to average national salaries, the pay scales for clinicians in the UK are competitive with the main destinations, including Australia, Canada and NZ [0].

A large part of the solution would appear to be increasing undergraduate medical education and further professional training slots. This would need increased government funding as well as agreement from professional bodies.

[0] https-//www.oecd.org/health/recent-trends-in-international-migration-of-doctors-nurses