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Red Hat dropping support for LibreOffice

lwn.net

171–180 of 316 posts

Re: Red Hat dropping support for LibreOffice

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if users aren't allowed to voice concern then they will make many more mistakes. Generally, RHEL does exactly what RHEL customers want. They are extremely loyal to their user base. The issues come when these changes set a trend and ripple to the rest of the community, and affect people who would never become a RH customer in the first place (e.g. anti-systemd fanatics)

> They are extremely loyal to their user base. Are you sure it's not the other way around? :-(

Either way, there is significant back-and-forth conversation between Red Hat and their users. And because of that, when the RHEL 9 deprecation rolls around in 2034, a lot of those users are likely to be well-prepared for a switch to either Flatpak or the upstream LibreOffice rpm.

Re: Red Hat dropping support for LibreOffice

#172

If I was using RH and paying for their workstation support, I will be quite upset they stop providing first class support for libre Office that is one of the main usage for a workstation. Display color accuracy is a nice to have but I have hard time believing that it is what is the most important to their users. Also, they will look fine when they will have color accuracy and HDR on their workstation and that all the…

The vast majority of the visual effects industry uses RHEL / Alma for compositing , color correction and many more aspects of the pipeline. I'd expect this userbase is more substantial than people using RHEL for libre office.

Re: Red Hat dropping support for LibreOffice

#173
post #170

I don't really see the problem. I want the rock solid underpinnings of RHEL, and am ok with older kernels etc.., but I generally want updated apps like LibreOffice, Firefox etc.. To me it makes sense for those things to be Flatpak, and for you to just get them directly from the source. A Flatpak of LO maintained by LO, a flatpak of Firefox maintained by Firefox etc.. What's the problem with that?

There is no problem with that. But it is just a simplified way of saying "Look! You can build your own software directly from the maintainers, but faster and much easier!"

Basically, a glorified Gentoo way. We're back to square one.

Re: Red Hat dropping support for LibreOffice

#174

If I was using RH and paying for their workstation support, I will be quite upset they stop providing first class support for libre Office that is one of the main usage for a workstation. Display color accuracy is a nice to have but I have hard time believing that it is what is the most important to their users. Also, they will look fine when they will have color accuracy and HDR on their workstation and that all the…

How about this?

RH will provide just the bare minimum of base OS and a bunch of devel-libraries to enable users who want to build their own software!

It would be more in line with the intended audience, at least.

Re: Red Hat dropping support for LibreOffice

#177
post #133
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumer desktop product. That's a category that nobody competes in. Apple sells hardware that incidentally includes macOS and Microsoft hasn't cared about selling Windows licenses directly to customers for years and their OEM licensing business for consumer devices (i.e. non-Pro licenses) is neat, but it couldn't sustain Windows by itself.

The shopping mall down the street certainly has Windows Home DVDs, as does Microsoft online store. Try to find value added enterprise desktop. https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/all-products

Those are incidental products of the big moneymakers being made up of the same parts, just like Fedora (and most other distros with the modern GNOME stack) exists because of RHEL.

Re: Red Hat dropping support for LibreOffice

#178

This LWN article makes the matter supremely confusing. The linked mailing list post is way better and clearer and it would be good to get this submission changed to it: https://lwn.net/ml/fedora-devel/20230601183054.12057.45907@m... Key excerpts: > … the LibreOffice RPMS have recently been orphaned … > … will contribute some fixes upstream to ensure LibreOffice works better as a Flatpak, which we expect to be the way…

This is probably how things will be moving. It doesn't make sense for every single distro to maintain customized versions of user level applications now that we have one package that works everywhere.

Because there are pros and cons for each type of packaging but native distro packages and Flatpak will go-exist. It does already on my machine.

Distribution packages:

    + necessary for base system
    + small memory requirement
    + small package size
    + all checked by distro
    + work well together
    + on fix, fixes it for all
    o lot of work for maintainers downstream
    - bugs hard to figure out for upstream
    - problematic with closed-source
Flatpak:

    + programmer packages is/her software once and only once
    + support all distributions i.e. Linux
    + use selected dependencies
    + control-groups and namespace are in place for lock-in
    + autonomous offline package handling e.g. “storeable on thumbdrive”
    - huge maintenance burden, especially security, on programmer
    - higher memory usage
    - big package size
Usually if I see something entirely new (e.g. Marker some years ago) or something using Qt-Libraries (e.g. Zeal) instead of my native Gtk based environment, it is a candidate for Flatpak. Marker is now in native repos of Arch, therefore is use it now from there. While I kept OpenRA as Flatpak because I need usually the on provided by upstream.

I think Flatpak is ideal for new stuff and especially closes-source software. Programmers cannot do the repeated error of supporting some special outdated distributions. It is a miracle to me how anyone can think that packing for a specific distro is their job? It is not. The job is documenting how to package the software and allow redistribution. With Flatpak we allow them to do package themself if desired but just once and for all.

A weak point of Flatpak is that facepalm Canonical is doing it very own show with Snap. How often does Canonical need to fail with Mir, Unity, Upstart and now Snap? The server is closed-source and it is against the community. Even if it would be better it is dead. And no, we don’t need two competing…please just commit fixes to GNOME e.g. type-ahead-find?

And I don’t want to hype Flatpak: GNOME-Software could use less memory itself, we need an easy approach for payment (and repeated payment?) and it stores many small file on disk. And I wonder which security requirements the Flathub requires?

Re: Red Hat dropping support for LibreOffice

#179

This LWN article makes the matter supremely confusing. The linked mailing list post is way better and clearer and it would be good to get this submission changed to it: https://lwn.net/ml/fedora-devel/20230601183054.12057.45907@m... Key excerpts: > … the LibreOffice RPMS have recently been orphaned … > … will contribute some fixes upstream to ensure LibreOffice works better as a Flatpak, which we expect to be the way…

Why don’t the libreoffice devs package a flatpak as a first party thing?

Re: Red Hat dropping support for LibreOffice

#180

I get libreoffice is "bad" but the existence of alternatives online really drive home how it is not impossible to develop a modern office suite alternative to office. I honestly wish I could have a desktop tool again, I'm tired of giving the large IT corps more data they can train on. It's possible with some love. Blender did it, it is quickly becoming an accepted tool in 3D graphics circles, if not the standard.

How do the online suites handle word documents? IMO one of the problems with the LibreOffice/OpenOffice projects is that they took on an impossible challenge, working with Microsoft’s semi-documented mess of a file format. An office suite might not be hard, but Word is made of hacks and kludges, matching them is nearly impossible.

How about we start writing actual content and stop fiddling with fonts and margins.

The amount of useful information being buried in “word” documents is mind boggling. Let’s start treating data as data and style as style. When you type your friggin notes on the meeting with the CFO we don’t need “Calibri” at 12px. This dumb shit is a nightmare to index and it’s all around stupid from just about every angle I can look at it. The amount of resources wasted on giving the illusion of a fancy typewriter is visible from space & multiple libraries of Congress.

It’s like designing websites in photoshop. Oh, wait..

I’ll let myself out.

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