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The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

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Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#221

Post by VirusNewbie »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #187
soared wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your circle of 2/300k engineers does not represent average people. 99% of Americans should not be able to get a faang job even if the exact park was laid in front of them before college.

I have never worked for a FAANG company, or anything close, and can usually not get in the front door at any "prestigious" company. In my last round of interviews nearly all startups/small companies I talked to where offering 200k+ for remote senior engineers. It's not hard to break 200k remote as a software engineer. If you're not there I highly recommend you start looking around, even in this market, rather than si…

Do you make 300k? You said it was “easy to get” so surely you’re above that?

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#222

Post by algkkb »

candiddevmike wrote: post #191
jimmydddd wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The job security issue is huge. Many of my tech and finance friends in their early 50's are getting pushed out of their jobs, while my physician friends in their 60's can keep their career as long as they want. A family member recently visited a dr. in his late 70's.

It's interesting that places value seniority and experience so much more in medicine vs tech. Things change daily in both fields--new procedures, new findings--yet tech seems to have far more ageism. Why is an older doctor so much more valuable than an older developer?

“When you hear hoof beats think of horses – not zebras”. Old doctors won't catastophize and scare you as much but are in my opinion more likely to misdiagnose a rare disease.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#223

Post by chimeracoder »

weatherlite wrote: post #105
the_d3f4ult wrote: post #62

Being a physician is a horrible career move right now. As a former Math/CS major turned eye surgeon, I can't help but think about how much easier my life would be had I stuck with tech. It's hard to understand exactly how hard the job is until you've lived it. I saw 40 patient's in clinic today in 8 hours without lunch or any kind of downtime and then spent 2 hours at the hospital because a patient needed an emergent…

> There's just no reason to do the job when you can get the same compensation working remotely in tech. Looking through the "Who's Hiring" thread is soul-crushing. Physician salaries are the only ones that do not grow relative to inflation and have decreased year-on-year relative to inflation for decades. What ? Most U.S physicians make 300K + after residency with job security set for life. The real bright ones, the…

> What ? Most U.S physicians make 300K + after residency

Most US physicians also pay for a lot of work-related expenses out-of-pocket (insurance, continuing ed, etc), and due to the nature of tax codes, most that often is not actually deductible in practice (particularly since they'll usually end up paying AMT).

There's a lot of variance depending on which specialty you choose and where you work, but as a point of reference: most new attending physicians in metro areas are actually netting less than an engineer in the same area who has been working since graduating college[0]. (And that's before you factor in any student debt, or the opportunity cost of forgoing ~10 years of gainful employment).

> with job security set for life.

May have been true 40 years ago, but definitely not true today, especially for certain fields.

[0] If two people graduate college at the same time, and one goes into medicine and the other goes to work as an engineer, the engineer will easily reach career level (senior) by the time the other person is done with their residency.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#224

Post by VirusNewbie »

haldujai wrote: post #137
the_d3f4ult wrote: post #62

Being a physician is a horrible career move right now. As a former Math/CS major turned eye surgeon, I can't help but think about how much easier my life would be had I stuck with tech. It's hard to understand exactly how hard the job is until you've lived it. I saw 40 patient's in clinic today in 8 hours without lunch or any kind of downtime and then spent 2 hours at the hospital because a patient needed an emergent…

I agree, I left a FAANG and startup to pursue medicine (not that finances were my motivation) and my co-founder who went back to a FAANG is earning more than most physicians now. I’m far removed from this work environment now but at 10 years of SWE in a FAANG one seems to be making ~$350k-400k in total compensation? Not sure how many make it to L6 or higher, I defer to other commenters here. If you consider the compe…

Most people cannot last 10 years in FAANG. It’s up or out.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#225

Post by algkkb »

linsomniac wrote: post #219

A physician shortage is not a good thing, but I'm closer to the nurses shortage; my wife is a nurse. Nurses get it from all sides: The healthcare administrators never put enough on duty, similarly they don't have enough CNAs helping them, and the patients and families can be pretty abusive. It's really a game of numbers: You should have 1 nurse for every X patients, and Y CNAs for every nurse. But the common story is…

I would've been a CNA out of high school instead of working retail if it would have paid me more than retail. Fact is, you're wiping ass for minimum wage and obviously not a lot of people are going to want do that. I'd say start with wages if I was addressing the issue.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#226

Post by Tanjreeve »

ch4s3 wrote: post #73
Tanjreeve wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first three articles are various flavours of FUD and vague assertions of coercion of the usual kind of "flood the field" BS everyone is used to from MSM. The fourth link you provided "asks questions" but then the actual conclusion is that their trainings fine and people are spouting FUD and they'll need some extra focus on country specific problems. """ Results South African students trained in Cuba have had bene…

Really because the Cuban state bio pharmaceutical industry items at least a 40% shortage in medical supplies[1](I hope you read Spanish). Here’s another from Univision[2]. I could dig through the state news and find where they say the same thing but I have limited patience for stalinist ramblings. As for the training, I did only cite one study. But I know doctors who have worked along side Cuban doctors in Africa thr…

The shortage of medical supplies is a problem created by the US which is then recycled into evidence of medical failure which is quite a nice little Gordian knot.

>As for the training, I did only cite one study. But I know doctors who have worked along side Cuban doctors in Africa through MSF, and they’re according to multiple people I’ve spoken with very poorly trained. The medical missions are also as I pointed out basically slavery.

I'll be honest the corporate media has played so fast and loose with information the last few years so they don't get the benefit of the doubt and I'm aware of a fair few countries with various flavours of regimes to stop doctors and/or graduates emigrating instantly with their expensive training so I wouldnt know enough to judge on "slavery". I'd need more context and another viewpoint to form an opinion.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#227

Post by throwaway173738 »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #63
the_d3f4ult wrote: post #62

Being a physician is a horrible career move right now. As a former Math/CS major turned eye surgeon, I can't help but think about how much easier my life would be had I stuck with tech. It's hard to understand exactly how hard the job is until you've lived it. I saw 40 patient's in clinic today in 8 hours without lunch or any kind of downtime and then spent 2 hours at the hospital because a patient needed an emergent…

> That said, is anyone hiring an ophthalmologist with CS and Math degrees? I’m surprised you can’t leverage this into a product role or a consulting role for startups in the medical space. You know shit about med systems!!

In the US medical device companies usually have a board of practitioners to give advice about the state of the art and the challenges with existing practice in the field. You can also start building your own device or system and plan to sell it, but you should find someone to consult on how to lobby the FDA and CMS as early as possible, because some devices get stuck in De Novo or PMA for years, and that’s a big risk to take. You’ll also need to have a long term plan for how the company will grow as you get closer to regulatory approval. A “product role” in these companies is very heavy on managing regulatory approval and making sure the company doesn’t get sued.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#228

Post by NemoNobody »

unnamed76ri wrote: post #126
DangitBobby wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the reach and power of the US government, you can trivially define most any problem as being due to a lack of or surplus of government involvement.

Given that the US gov is over $30 trillion in debt, it is hard to justify saying that there has been a lack of government. There’s been over $30 trillion too much government and they don’t appear to have any plans of slowing down.

The Debt to GDP ratio hasn't changed much - it peaked at around 132% of GDP in 2021, due to the COVID spending and lower pandemic income. As of Dec 2022 it had dropped to 123% - 9% of the US GDP has been "repaid" in only a year.

We are the richest country on earth - our budget is almost incomprehensible. The important thing to realize is that despite how high the debt number is, it's only ever been 132% of our GDP at its highest - roughly 16 months of the US economy. We could easily make it up by adding higher income tiers so ppl that earn $500k p/y are not taxed at the same percentage as ppl that earn $500 million.

Trump's first day tax cuts for rich people added a lot to the debt - just look at how much they added to their bank accounts between 2019 and 2022 - trillions of dollars, literally.

If there was no government there would only be the billionaires and their corporations - I need look no further than Google to understand how terrible a world that would be.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#229

Post by nradov »

chimeracoder wrote: post #223
weatherlite wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's just no reason to do the job when you can get the same compensation working remotely in tech. Looking through the "Who's Hiring" thread is soul-crushing. Physician salaries are the only ones that do not grow relative to inflation and have decreased year-on-year relative to inflation for decades. What ? Most U.S physicians make 300K + after residency with job security set for life. The real bright ones, the…

> What ? Most U.S physicians make 300K + after residency Most US physicians also pay for a lot of work-related expenses out-of-pocket (insurance, continuing ed, etc), and due to the nature of tax codes, most that often is not actually deductible in practice (particularly since they'll usually end up paying AMT). There's a lot of variance depending on which specialty you choose and where you work, but as a point of re…

All true, but the unemployment rate for licensed physicians is virtually zero. They can always find some kind of job, although they might have to move somewhere undesirable.

Re: The planning of U.S. physician shortages (2020)

#230

Post by catchnear4321 »

the_d3f4ult wrote: post #62

Being a physician is a horrible career move right now. As a former Math/CS major turned eye surgeon, I can't help but think about how much easier my life would be had I stuck with tech. It's hard to understand exactly how hard the job is until you've lived it. I saw 40 patient's in clinic today in 8 hours without lunch or any kind of downtime and then spent 2 hours at the hospital because a patient needed an emergent…

> But, why would anyone want to do the job?

> I do believe that the rigorous training model leads to a higher quality of care and much deeper understanding of the disease process.

you somewhat answer your own question in the prior sentence. maybe not want, maybe called, or cared, maybe something else. not that it is binding or permanent, not that it should be.

but for all of the words spent about how it is a bad choice, how it has harmed you directly, how the money isn’t great, you’re bringing up positives, for patients.

you sound burned out. that’s not a criticism, nor should it be a badge of honor. maybe i have totally misjudged, but the career choice doesn’t sound like a purely financial decision for you.

even if not, even if i misjudge this, you, you did that ten hour plus death march. you gave your best efforts though that patient may go blind anyway, though they may feel punitive about it towards you.

you still did it. someone had to. by your own words, the patient NEEDED the procedure. you needed to go home, and be with family.

the patient got the procedure.

in case no one else has said it, or joining in with anyone that already has:

thank you, stranger.

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