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Stop eliminating good candidates by asking them the wrong questions

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Re: Stop eliminating good candidates by asking them the wrong questions

#31

Post by CapmCrackaWaka »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #8

I’ve had this experience. I passed all of the interviews only to be failed by a senior manager that had some kind of expectation I couldn’t figure out. About 6 seconds into a phone call, I’d failed for not matching whatever expectation he had for how a phone call should go. As far as I can tell, he expected me to do everything his way without being asked. That was truly bizarre. I think I dodged a bullet there.

I noticed long ago that many people have their own interviewing “secrets”. Remember that story about how Henry Ford would fail applicants if they put salt on their meal without trying it first? A lot of people take stories/ideas like that to heart. The person interviewing you was probably offended you called him by his first name or something. “A good applicant won’t do that”.

Re: Stop eliminating good candidates by asking them the wrong questions

#32

Post by Lapsa »

phkahler wrote: post #24

I agree with most of it but not this: "Interviewees are often told to use “I” to get credit for work done, but “we” is probably a more realistic depiction of how work gets done." I've had too many candidates talk about "we" and the general project, or what the team they were on did. But when I try to get at what they specifically did I get nothing. Sure we need team players, but not just cheerleaders. Take credit for…

more relevant in States. rest of the world isn't as obsessed with managing their egos

Re: Stop eliminating good candidates by asking them the wrong questions

#33

Post by [deleted] »

rr808 wrote: post #22

For my current job I got grilled with leetcode style questions. Lucky I'd done a few before so knew the tricks. Now I work there the job is basic crud style work, nothing fancy required. Employer also hires grads almost exclusively from Ivy League universities and they mostly suck. Makes me look good. :)

[deleted]

Re: Stop eliminating good candidates by asking them the wrong questions

#35

Post by steveBK123 »

The interview process is a great filter for the candidates as well to understand if the company/team/manager is in one way or another, insane. The interview process exposes company culture in one way or another.

Things to watch for as a candidate:

* Is the process oddly impersonal with lots of gates to make it through before even talking to the team who is hiring? Red flags - MBTI personality tests. Extremely hard tech tests that even half correct gets your through. Video recorded timed take home tests. Etc.

* Do the people hiring you know how to do the job, are they asking you anything relevant? Are all the interviews kind of high level 10k foot view, and/or in the weeds in weird ways? Red flag - All there interviewees are peers to the hiring manager and above. Red flag - Digging into arcane proof of concept code from 10+ year old white papers that the entire industry has moved past. Not the flex the interviewer thinks it is. Red flag - Interviewers who seem confused why they are interviewing you, don't know what role it is for.

* If hiring into an existing team, are any of these peers part of the interview process? Red flag if no - sign of huge turnover / mad max type org where you are being brought in to fight for survival.

* Is the process unclear, do new rounds keep popping up, do interviews keep getting rescheduled, are interviewees constantly late to the interview? Red flag - Disorganized chaos, do they even actually have a role open they can hire, are they stalling?

Re: Stop eliminating good candidates by asking them the wrong questions

#36

Post by ozim »

chii wrote: post #13
devnullbrain wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wants to be right. A job interview is not like an exam, it's like dating. An opportunity for two parties to decide if they can work together. Hiding who you really are to 'pass' is a bad foundation. That's why I don't like the conclusion of the article. Anand didn't fail the interview because the criteria were wrong - the interviewer failed because they suck at being an engineering manager.

> it's like dating ... Hiding who you really are to 'pass' is a bad foundation. you'd be surprised at the amount of people who fake themselves for the date.

That is why you are not supposed to marry after first date ;)

Re: Stop eliminating good candidates by asking them the wrong questions

#37

Post by willcipriano »

CapmCrackaWaka wrote: post #31
kayodelycaon wrote: post #8

I’ve had this experience. I passed all of the interviews only to be failed by a senior manager that had some kind of expectation I couldn’t figure out. About 6 seconds into a phone call, I’d failed for not matching whatever expectation he had for how a phone call should go. As far as I can tell, he expected me to do everything his way without being asked. That was truly bizarre. I think I dodged a bullet there.

I noticed long ago that many people have their own interviewing “secrets”. Remember that story about how Henry Ford would fail applicants if they put salt on their meal without trying it first? A lot of people take stories/ideas like that to heart. The person interviewing you was probably offended you called him by his first name or something. “A good applicant won’t do that”.

It's always some nonsense like:

"He used his left foot to enter the room. A good candidate will use his right as they will put their best foot forward."

Re: Stop eliminating good candidates by asking them the wrong questions

#38

Post by albert_e »

phkahler wrote: post #24

I agree with most of it but not this: "Interviewees are often told to use “I” to get credit for work done, but “we” is probably a more realistic depiction of how work gets done." I've had too many candidates talk about "we" and the general project, or what the team they were on did. But when I try to get at what they specifically did I get nothing. Sure we need team players, but not just cheerleaders. Take credit for…

I am not from the states but my IT career involved working on teams with US clients and also working in the US for a few years.

I find it very hard to say "I did X" for anything except for personal projects that I did myself from start to finish.

In typical work projects even the best of ideas always need to be bought by rest of the team and also executed collaboratively by the team. I would be dishonest if I were to say "I delivered this project on time/under budget" even if I did play significant part in keeping the project healthy and on track.

Re: Stop eliminating good candidates by asking them the wrong questions

#39

Post by saalweachter »

Lapsa wrote: post #32
phkahler wrote: post #24

I agree with most of it but not this: "Interviewees are often told to use “I” to get credit for work done, but “we” is probably a more realistic depiction of how work gets done." I've had too many candidates talk about "we" and the general project, or what the team they were on did. But when I try to get at what they specifically did I get nothing. Sure we need team players, but not just cheerleaders. Take credit for…

more relevant in States. rest of the world isn't as obsessed with managing their egos

This is highly regional, both within the US and throughout the rest of the world. In some cultures, you always downplay your own contributions, and listeners inflate them; in others, you always talk yourself up, and listeners adjust accordingly.

When you work in a large, heterogenous organization, it is important to pay attention to these differences, or else you end up either assuming someone did nothing or is a useless braggart because their culture doesn't match your own.

Re: Stop eliminating good candidates by asking them the wrong questions

#40

Post by logicalmonster »

rr808 wrote: post #22

For my current job I got grilled with leetcode style questions. Lucky I'd done a few before so knew the tricks. Now I work there the job is basic crud style work, nothing fancy required. Employer also hires grads almost exclusively from Ivy League universities and they mostly suck. Makes me look good. :)

> For my current job I got grilled with leetcode style questions.

I don't mind being asked a leetcode style question or two in an interview. Even if somebody struggles with solving an unfamiliar problem off the cuff, you can see if they they take some logical problem solving approaches.

But it's frustrating that no practical web-development questions are ever asked for those kinds of jobs.

For instance, security is really important to the survival of any company. An insecure system that has a data leak could literally destroy a company overnight. Having a secure system is far more important than knowing a more efficient algorithm for sorting some data or whatever.

But I've never been asked 1 practical question about security in a technical job interview.

It's so painfully stupid it hurts.

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