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Brazil develops tropical wheat and predicts self-sufficiency in 5 years

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Re: Brazil develops tropical wheat and predicts self-sufficiency in 5 years

#131

Post by UncleEntity »

wolverine876 wrote: post #53
marcodiego wrote: post #26

There are a few things that would make Brazil a lot more stable economically (and even socially and politically) if we achieved self-sufficiency: Fossil fuels: Currently, Brazil is self-sufficient in oil, but we export petrol to buy back refined fuels (gasoline and diesel). If we were self-sufficient in fossil fuels we would be much more immune to inflation every time OPEC decides to reduce oil output. Wheat: We are…

> Achieving self-sufficiency in these three areas would be like a second independence for us (first was when we got free from Portugal). Every country in the world is dependent on trade, which is saves a lot of money over self-sufficiency. North Korea is the only country that tries self-sufficiency. If it costs you $100/bushel to produce wheat and you can buy it for $60/bushel (I'm fabricating numbers), why produce i…

> If it costs you $100/bushel to produce wheat and you can buy it for $60/bushel (I'm fabricating numbers), why produce it?

“Certain countries” are well known for subsidizing domestic grain production and dumping it on overseas markets which ends up hurting the local farmers as they can’t compete on prices. Given enough time these countries become totally dependent on the imported grains and their entire farming industry goes away.

You make the choice on if you’re comfortable depending entirely on foreign production of foodstuffs.

—edit—

Actually, you don’t get to make the choice…

Re: Brazil develops tropical wheat and predicts self-sufficiency in 5 years

#132

Post by matheusmoreira »

piva00 wrote: post #130
matheusmoreira wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd burn that entire jungle down if it brought us industry, development and prosperity in exchange. Why is it that only developed countries got to exploit their natural resources?

It happened 100-200 years ago in developed countries, we know better now that it isn't something to be replicated. Or are you also willing to have child labour working 12-16 hours/day to achieve industrialisation? Burning that entire jungle down to achieve short-term economical development will doom future generations, you achieve development and prosperity for 20 years while leaving a bleak future for the next 50-20…

> For what? Making some cars? Mining some ore?

Defense industry? Semiconductor fabs? Pretty much anything? You name it dude. I'm just sick of my country being the world's barn. Producing soy and shit. I wish Brazil had balls to do what China did.

> you're parroting Bolsonaro's demagogy

Please. I don't care at all about Bolsonaro. He's irrelevant. I had this opinion before he even took office.

It's not that I "haven't thought of the consequences", it's that I really don't give a shit. I literally couldn't care less that there's going to be a price -- I'd pay it gladly, if it brought prosperity and power to my nation.

Re: Brazil develops tropical wheat and predicts self-sufficiency in 5 years

#133

Post by matheusmoreira »

piva00 wrote: post #127
matheusmoreira wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> to literal corrupt communists This kind of stupid hyperbole is not really conducive to any civil discussion. Calling Lula a communist in 2023 is akin to calling Tony Blair a communist in 1997: misguided red-scare tactics against someone who basically embraced neoliberalism in favour of any socialist tendencies to achieve power. Don't be that kind of person, it just make you look dumb.

You're saying I can't call Lula, the guy who called himself a "refined socialist" not even a year ago, a communist. Really now.

Guess I'm gonna insist on looking dumb then. It's shocking to me that the fact he's a communist is news to people. If you really believe this guy... Go ahead and give him your Amazon subsidies. Watch him spend it on absolutely critical matters like massive raises for the supreme court judges who are persecuting his political enemies.

Re: Brazil develops tropical wheat and predicts self-sufficiency in 5 years

#134

Post by voz_ »

marcodiego wrote: post #26

There are a few things that would make Brazil a lot more stable economically (and even socially and politically) if we achieved self-sufficiency: Fossil fuels: Currently, Brazil is self-sufficient in oil, but we export petrol to buy back refined fuels (gasoline and diesel). If we were self-sufficient in fossil fuels we would be much more immune to inflation every time OPEC decides to reduce oil output. Wheat: We are…

None of this independence is deserved if brazil continues raping the Amazon.

I also find the take on decoupling from russia weak and cowardly.

Re: Brazil develops tropical wheat and predicts self-sufficiency in 5 years

#135

Post by UncleEntity »

wolverine876 wrote: post #82
bee_rider wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is nice to be self-sufficient on survival staples like grains if that is an option. If your competitors are driving a hard bargain and the downside is that you don’t get video game consoles, it isn’t the end of the world, you can call their bluff. If the downside is starvation, it is a bit tougher.

When has that happened - that a country experienced starvation because grain was withheld? Especially a country the size of Brazil?

Ask the Soviets.

Though they were able to find alternative foreign sources to make up the difference and redevelop domestic production.

Re: Brazil develops tropical wheat and predicts self-sufficiency in 5 years

#136

Post by aolhn »

ajot wrote: post #67
foobarian wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't the states there organize into a southern United States? It feels silly to talk about self-sufficiency and all when the analog at country level is the USA states. Nobody would expect e.g. Rhode Island to feed itself, but thankfully there is the Midwest. Maybe Bolivar's dream could come true one day.

Well, Bolivar tried but, luckilly, failed. Good for us he was no big military genius, and a coward in battle. We don't need a Napoleon wannabe in South America, thank you very much.

Would you mind expanding a bit on the whole “no big military genius” and “coward in battle” or share some links on it? I’ve heard and read many critics of Bolivar but never any of the sort you mention (not trying to call you out or anything, just genuinely curious about it)

Re: Brazil develops tropical wheat and predicts self-sufficiency in 5 years

#137

Post by piva00 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #132
piva00 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happened 100-200 years ago in developed countries, we know better now that it isn't something to be replicated. Or are you also willing to have child labour working 12-16 hours/day to achieve industrialisation? Burning that entire jungle down to achieve short-term economical development will doom future generations, you achieve development and prosperity for 20 years while leaving a bleak future for the next 50-20…

> For what? Making some cars? Mining some ore? Defense industry? Semiconductor fabs? Pretty much anything? You name it dude. I'm just sick of my country being the world's barn. Producing soy and shit. I wish Brazil had balls to do what China did. > you're parroting Bolsonaro's demagogy Please. I don't care at all about Bolsonaro. He's irrelevant. I had this opinion before he even took office. It's not that I "haven't…

> It's not that I "haven't thought of the consequences", it's that I really don't give a shit. I literally couldn't care less that there's going to be a price -- I'd pay it gladly, if it brought prosperity and power to my nation.

That's the whole issue: you aren't the one who is going to pay for it.

I'm originally from the same nation as you, that's exactly why I'm calling you moronic. Semiconductor fabs don't depend on the Amazon being burnt down. Defence industry does not depend on the Amazon being burnt down. These depend on political stability, well-educate population, State investment in R&D for the future, economical policies that foster national industries through the whole chain, fiscal policies (and stability of those) that don't overburden small R&D companies. Custo-Brasil encompasses all of that: political instability, fiscal policies that are burdensome to abide to, a poorly educated population, bureaucratic inefficiencies, so on and so forth.

That's what need to change in Brazil, not fucking burning the Amazon down, that won't bring any prosperity as the elites would be unchanged, they would still pillage and loot you and the rest of the population, as it's been done since the 1500s.

Re: Brazil develops tropical wheat and predicts self-sufficiency in 5 years

#138

Post by piva00 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #133
piva00 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to literal corrupt communists This kind of stupid hyperbole is not really conducive to any civil discussion. Calling Lula a communist in 2023 is akin to calling Tony Blair a communist in 1997: misguided red-scare tactics against someone who basically embraced neoliberalism in favour of any socialist tendencies to achieve power. Don't be that kind of person, it just make you look dumb.

You're saying I can't call Lula, the guy who called himself a "refined socialist" not even a year ago, a communist. Really now. Guess I'm gonna insist on looking dumb then. It's shocking to me that the fact he's a communist is news to people. If you really believe this guy... Go ahead and give him your Amazon subsidies. Watch him spend it on absolutely critical matters like massive raises for the supreme court judges…

Him calling himself that for political points is extremely different than being one. Lula is not a communist, he hasn't been since his first 2 terms between 2002-2010. He embraced completely the "Third Way" of social-democracy, which means it is completely enveloped by the frame of neoliberalism.

Banks made a killing during 2002-2010, how would a communist be supportive of the finance industry?

It's shocking to me you are Brazilian and don't know this, it's shocking you parrot red-scare tactics as if Lula is about to start a Communist Revolution in Brazil. He isn't, he is not a communist.

And socialism is not communism.

Re: Brazil develops tropical wheat and predicts self-sufficiency in 5 years

#139

Post by UncleEntity »

Qem wrote: post #65
daveguy wrote: post #6

Anyone familiar with the governmental policies of Brazil? They mentioned deforestation twice to say that it's not a problem because this will be done on existing farmland. But, how long that will hold when there's money to be made?

> They mentioned deforestation twice to say that it's not a problem because this will be done on existing farmland. I'm skeptical of this reasoning. Wheat may be planted on existing farmland. But then where will the previous crops on that farmland be planted? If one changes a bean farm to a wheat farm, but then somebody else slashes and burn Amazon Forest or Pantanal to plant the displaced beans, then we have a net l…

> But then where will the previous crops on that farmland be planted?

From the article:

In the cerrado, wheat is planted from March to June. Soybeans and corn are the main crops from October to February. So, tropical wheat represents an extra source of income for the farmer.

Re: Brazil develops tropical wheat and predicts self-sufficiency in 5 years

#140

Post by matheusmoreira »

piva00 wrote: post #137
matheusmoreira wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For what? Making some cars? Mining some ore? Defense industry? Semiconductor fabs? Pretty much anything? You name it dude. I'm just sick of my country being the world's barn. Producing soy and shit. I wish Brazil had balls to do what China did. > you're parroting Bolsonaro's demagogy Please. I don't care at all about Bolsonaro. He's irrelevant. I had this opinion before he even took office. It's not that I "haven't…

> It's not that I "haven't thought of the consequences", it's that I really don't give a shit. I literally couldn't care less that there's going to be a price -- I'd pay it gladly, if it brought prosperity and power to my nation. That's the whole issue: you aren't the one who is going to pay for it. I'm originally from the same nation as you, that's exactly why I'm calling you moronic. Semiconductor fabs don't depend…

Never said those things depended on burning down the amazon. I said I'd totally sacrifice it if doing so paid off.

You're calling me a moron because you took my post literally. Truth is I don't even disagree with the rest of your points. The sentiment I tried to convey was "the amazon doesn't matter, we have bigger problems to worry about". That's the most polite way I found to express what I feel when I see people worrying about a jungle in a country that's unable to provide basic sanitation to all its citizens. Especially those living in said jungle, and there are many.

At least it's a relatively noble cause. I'm a lot less polite when it comes to intellectual property.

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