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Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

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Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#71

Post by quesera »

jmyeet wrote: post #51

The Nuremberg Trials weren't perfect. One notable example was Albert Speer, Hitler's Architect and part of his inner circle who got away with a 20 year sentence (before moving to London where he died years later) by claiming to not know anything about the Final Solution. He got away with this by basically being a "gentleman" without their being a smoking gun. It was a classic "he's one of us". But Nuremberg was very…

I can accept a parallel between the systems in which slavery and nazism are tolerated.

But it seems an important difference, in judging the participants, whether those systems were inherited from hundreds of years of precedent, or newly-built by the current perpetrators.

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#72

Post by goodSteveramos »

vkou wrote: post #69
goodSteveramos wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who plead guilty and pledged loyalty to the new government were given light sentences. People who plead innocent were executed. The results could hardly be called inexplicable.

Incorrect. Most of them weren't even tried . And of those that were, most of the ones who fought the charges weren't convicted, or were convicted of far lesser charges. Only a few got death sentences. ... For instance, the industrialists that bankrolled the Nazis, ran their factories with slave labour, and made posion gas for exterminating Jews and other victims of fascism got 2 to 7 years, with most of them being ac…

Thats not incorrect. The idea that people working for companies making basic supplies are guilty of murder for what their own government did with said supplies without their knowledge is so absurd that by your own admission they were not even tried. But that makes the trials of people who were fair? How about you directly enumerate the rights they were or were not afforded to determine if their trials were fair.

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#73

Post by [deleted] »

parabyl wrote: post #40
eschulz wrote: post #10

The Nuremberg Trials were fascinating. While I think many of the individuals leading the tribunal were trying to do a good job in the tradition of their respective nations' legal frameworks, the victorious allies could really not see eye to eye on what was a fair measure of retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence, etc. So my take is that largely all legal norms were discarded or violated, and the tribunal had to reac…

These sorts of ordeals (not that there have been many of them) truly fascinate me - especially with regard to the decisions on 'appropriate' retributive justice. As a student growing up in South Africa we were often asked to compare the objectives and results of the Nuremburg trials alongside the Truth and Reconciliation Comission at the fall of Apartheid. The TRC allowed those accused (on both sides), to come forwar…

[deleted]

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#74

Post by boppo1 »

rajin444 wrote: post #42
sillywalk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention all the major powers had committed similar atrocities in their own pasts, and they all were racing to collect Nazi/Japanese scientists.

Weren't they in the process of committing some as these trials were ongoing? I don't think there's a reliable number, but certainly 6 figure and likely 7 figure death tolls for ethnic Germans due to postwar resettlements etc.

This sounds sorta lost-cause-y. 1,000,000 civilians killed in postwar orchestrations?

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#75

Post by winrid »

readonthegoapp wrote: post #27

from the home page of the archive: > The IMT contributed to the definition of war crimes and the outlawing of wars of aggression. that hints at what really happened at the tribunal. chomsky has some details: https://chomsky.info/20070803/ The Nuremberg case is a very interesting precedent. First of all, the Nuremberg trials—of all the tribunals that have taken place, from then until today—it is, I think, the most ser…

It's peobably worth noting Doenitz still spent 10 years in prison for crimes against peace.

He didn't get out early because he wouldn't denounce his allegiance to Hitler, either.

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#76

Post by boppo1 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #35
readonthegoapp wrote: post #27

from the home page of the archive: > The IMT contributed to the definition of war crimes and the outlawing of wars of aggression. that hints at what really happened at the tribunal. chomsky has some details: https://chomsky.info/20070803/ The Nuremberg case is a very interesting precedent. First of all, the Nuremberg trials—of all the tribunals that have taken place, from then until today—it is, I think, the most ser…

Chomsky has proven to be a rather biased observer in the "yeahbutwhatabout" game. Which is saying something, considering his ethnic heritage and the fact that we're talking about Nazis. If he and Kissinger were on fire and I only had one glass of water, I'd drink it.

Everyone seems to hate Kissinger except my late ethnic german grandma who lived through WW2 in Berlin. What did he do?

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#78

Post by readonthegoapp »

winrid wrote: post #75
readonthegoapp wrote: post #27

from the home page of the archive: > The IMT contributed to the definition of war crimes and the outlawing of wars of aggression. that hints at what really happened at the tribunal. chomsky has some details: https://chomsky.info/20070803/ The Nuremberg case is a very interesting precedent. First of all, the Nuremberg trials—of all the tribunals that have taken place, from then until today—it is, I think, the most ser…

It's peobably worth noting Doenitz still spent 10 years in prison for crimes against peace. He didn't get out early because he wouldn't denounce his allegiance to Hitler, either.

you are saying that US military leaders should have served time too?

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#79

Post by readonthegoapp »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #35
readonthegoapp wrote: post #27

from the home page of the archive: > The IMT contributed to the definition of war crimes and the outlawing of wars of aggression. that hints at what really happened at the tribunal. chomsky has some details: https://chomsky.info/20070803/ The Nuremberg case is a very interesting precedent. First of all, the Nuremberg trials—of all the tribunals that have taken place, from then until today—it is, I think, the most ser…

Chomsky has proven to be a rather biased observer in the "yeahbutwhatabout" game. Which is saying something, considering his ethnic heritage and the fact that we're talking about Nazis. If he and Kissinger were on fire and I only had one glass of water, I'd drink it.

yeahbutwhatabout the fact that the trial was mostly a sham?

that kind of whataboutism?

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#80

Post by ekianjo »

vkou wrote: post #69
goodSteveramos wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who plead guilty and pledged loyalty to the new government were given light sentences. People who plead innocent were executed. The results could hardly be called inexplicable.

Incorrect. Most of them weren't even tried . And of those that were, most of the ones who fought the charges weren't convicted, or were convicted of far lesser charges. Only a few got death sentences. ... For instance, the industrialists that bankrolled the Nazis, ran their factories with slave labour, and made posion gas for exterminating Jews and other victims of fascism got 2 to 7 years, with most of them being ac…

We are still waiting for the war criminals who bombed Dresden to be tried as well.
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