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Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

arstechnica.com

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Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#481

Post by aio2 »

ryandvm wrote: post #286
jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

Eh, that's great for you (according to you), but for the millions of folks that are driving around staring at their phones, I am beyond thankful for this technology. I've been driving a Honda with the all the safety assists for several years and while it does do the occasional erroneous "you need to brake" pre-warning, I've never had it brake unnecessarily. Anecdotes aside, I'm fairly certain automatic braking is a n…

May I ask why the respnsibility falls on the car instead of the driver on the phone in the first paragraph?

Just like you are responsible if you used a gun, you are responsible on how you drive a car.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#482

Post by peteradio »

ceejayoz wrote: post #449
ChatGTP wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the real issue is people using phones while driving, I know of at least one person who is dead from this. I rear ended a car when I was in my early 20s while on the phone, I se people driving trucks in narrow streets while on the phone in my area. I don't like enforcing things like this as a band aid, it's fine to try improve a situation, but let's be honest, many people who are involved in these accidents…

Sure. What we know, though, is "stop doing that" doesn't work. That's why aviation, highway safety, healthcare, tech postmortems, etc. have discovered that "please ask the human to stop doing human things" isn't the approach to take. Instead, we try to engineer away the opportunities for human error to kill people. (Quite successfully, in a lot of cases; as an example, aviation safety in the developed world is overal…

> That's a fact we have to accept.

You can go ahead and do that but I think people are justifiably pissed that we require invasive technology to coddle the idiots who can't be bothered.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#483

Post by ryandvm »

aio2 wrote: post #481
ryandvm wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, that's great for you (according to you), but for the millions of folks that are driving around staring at their phones, I am beyond thankful for this technology. I've been driving a Honda with the all the safety assists for several years and while it does do the occasional erroneous "you need to brake" pre-warning, I've never had it brake unnecessarily. Anecdotes aside, I'm fairly certain automatic braking is a n…

May I ask why the respnsibility falls on the car instead of the driver on the phone in the first paragraph? Just like you are responsible if you used a gun, you are responsible on how you drive a car.

Because, like guns, it's obvious that the despite the fact that the actor _should_ be responsible, the consequences for failure to do so fall on everyone else.

If my car has been destroyed by the driver behind me because they were looking at their phone, it's little consolation that they shouldn't have.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#484

Post by mhb »

williamcotton wrote: post #405
mhb wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the actual numbers should include the opportunity cost (in lives saved or QALYs, if you like) of the increased price of vehicles with these systems. Could that money have been spent on smoke detectors or healthier food or ?

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

What's your point?

On Wednesday, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration issued a notice of proposed rulemaking that would see automatic emergency braking become a standard feature on all new light passenger vehicles.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#485

Post by williamcotton »

mhb wrote: post #484
williamcotton wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

What's your point? On Wednesday, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration issued a notice of proposed rulemaking that would see automatic emergency braking become a standard feature on all new light passenger vehicles.

mhb said:

And the actual numbers should include the opportunity cost (in lives saved or QALYs, if you like) of the increased price of vehicles with these systems. Could that money have been spent on smoke detectors or healthier food or ?

In response I said:

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

Then mhb said:

What's your point?

Can you explain what my point was to mhb?

ChatGPT:

It seems like you're suggesting that the responsibility and scope of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is primarily focused on improving safety on the roads, specifically through regulations related to vehicles, rather than other broader public health initiatives like smoke detectors or promoting healthier food.

Your comment may imply that while considering the opportunity cost is a valid point for an overall public health or policy perspective, it may not be directly relevant to the mission and function of the NHTSA. The NHTSA's mandate is to ensure the safety of vehicles and roads, so they would prioritize improvements and regulations in that area, even if those funds might have a higher impact if spent elsewhere from a wider public health perspective.

In other words, the comment might suggest that each organization has its own scope and priorities, and while we can consider overall opportunity costs, we also need to consider the specific roles and responsibilities of different organizations. However, without more context, this is just one possible interpretation.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#486

Post by taeric »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #479
taeric wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is literally the definition of FUD here, though. These aren't things that have happened. And the data is ridiculously clear on progress. To paint these doubts is pretty much only to spread fear and uncertainty.

It's not FUD, they're not stating it as a fact, they're asking for an analysis of AEB in lots of different situations and not just overall.

That is how many FUD tactics are done. It is a rhetorical trick to try and maintain an exit...

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#487

Post by JohnFen »

astura wrote: post #432
hnick wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> applies too much resistance when attempting e.g overtaking It doesn't turn off when you indicate to change lanes? It does on the Hyundai.

Mine does too (Volkswagen) but it's been my observation that most people don't indicate to change lanes.

But I often see them used as an "apology blinker" (when they turn on the indicator after they've started to change lanes or turn).

Makes me laugh every time. I mean, at that point, why bother with the signal at all?

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#488

Post by Dylan16807 »

taeric wrote: post #486
Dylan16807 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not FUD, they're not stating it as a fact, they're asking for an analysis of AEB in lots of different situations and not just overall.

That is how many FUD tactics are done. It is a rhetorical trick to try and maintain an exit...

Yes, but sharing a characteristic with FUD is not enough to make something FUD. It's a realistic concern.

Someone else mentioned airbags. Airbags are great overall but increase danger for some people, and that's without obvious signs of anything being wrong.

With AEB we know it makes dangerous mistakes in significant amounts. So we very much should analyze different implementations under different kinds of weather, road, and driving style.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#489

Post by jjav »

Neil44 wrote: post #403
jjav wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the emergency braking system kicked in, braking much harder than I would have been able to So this is completely not true. You can brake as hard as any system can, there's no magic to it. Just press on the brake pedal hard, in any ABS car. Surprisingly, this is something people often don't do. I am an instructor at car control clinics, one of the exercises is panic braking. All you need to do it press on the brake…

I believe that the statistics are that most people don't brake anywhere near hard enough in accidents, because you're just not used to pushing the pedal that hard.

Yes this is what we see in the car control clinics.

I've been involved in these since the 90s. Back then the braking exercises were about teaching threshhold braking since most cars didn't have ABS.

I speculated that once ABS becomes mainstream we'll need to remove these exercises from the classes since there won't be anything left to teach, just press the brake and the car will do all the work.

I never foresaw that "just press the brake" was going to be so difficult for so many people that the braking exercises are still to this day very useful and most people fail badly the first few attempts!

For anyone reading, if you've never braked hard, braking hard in an ABS car means push on that brake pedal with the full force of your leg muscles as hard as you possibly can and then keep that pressure on, don't let go.

(Also, please sign up for a car control clinic.)

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#490

Post by JohnFen »

shortcake27 wrote: post #352
CWuestefeld wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I've been a licensed driver for over 40 years. I had one minor fender-bender at 16 years old, learned my lesson, and haven't had another accident since. I'm an exceptionally good driver as evidenced by this, plus the fact that I've taken performance driving classes, simulators, and so forth. I, personally, am a much lower risk than the typical driver. Putting a drivers' aid device in my car may well incre…

Every person on the planet believes they’re an above average driver. No one thinks they need these types of safety features in their car because they’re a safe driver and the problem is every other driver. It terrifies me that people are so oblivious to their own flaws that they would willingly disable features such as AEB if they could. I’m extremely thankful for regulations that prevent such life-saving safety feat…

> Every person on the planet believes they’re an above average driver

Not everyone. I don't think I'm an above average driver at all.

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