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Splash screens == sloth

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Re: Splash screens == sloth

#231

Post by jiggy2011 »

sixothree wrote: post #163
JS_startup wrote: post #25

I don't understand what he's angry about. Photoshop, Microsoft Office, OpenOffice, these are all enormously complicated programs that require resources to load. That doesn't make them bloatware and it doesn't make the programmers lazy. His proposed solution sucks too. Show the UI while it's loading so the user can impotently click around waiting for the program to "turn on". Windows does this when it boots up and it…

What's wrong with letting the user browse for a file to open?

you'll have to search the filesystem which means hitting the disk , moving the disk head away from where it was when it was loading the program.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#232

Post by jiggy2011 »

aycangulez wrote: post #54

I still use Photoshop 6.0 circa 1999. It loads in a few seconds max, and it has all the core functionality necessary for web graphics work. In fact, even PS 5.5 would do fine because it was the first version that supported Save for Web. If you are using the latest version of Photoshop for web work only, you are wasting time and money for tons of features you don't really need.

Agree, I don't think Adobe has ever really positioned PS as a web tool I always thought of it more as something for people to process photos with, including huge photo files which are intended for billboards etc.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#233

Post by jiggy2011 »

smacktoward wrote: post #63
jnorthrop wrote: post #23

I wonder how Kas Thomas feels about the credit roll that occurs at the start of a movie? You know the one where they show the logo of the movie studio, then the production company, then the producer, editor, et al. I see the software splash screen in the same light. It is giving credit to those who have put it together. Now, obviously entertainment is different then a work application, but many of us feel that softwa…

That's an example that proves the opposite of your point. You may notice if you watch some older movies (pre-1950s, mostly) that they used to run the ENTIRE credits list at the start of the film. The WHOLE THING. Not just the credits you see at the beginning today, but also all the ones that today are listed at the END of the movie, too. The copyright notices for all the songs they used, the logos for their camera an…

Actually, when I have watched a movie or played a video game that I have especially enjoyed I often make a point of watching the entire credits.

I find it fascinating to see the number of different skills that are required to get something like that from a drawing board idea to a shipped product.

Not to mention that sometimes they add some kind of extra "easter egg" content right after the credits as a bonus for watching right through.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#234

Post by jiggy2011 »

bobbyi wrote: post #93
Jasber wrote: post #41

About loading screens, I've always wondered why games don't try to get rid of these (maybe they do?). Anyone familiar with why you have to have loading screens in games? Would it be possible to pre-load a level while you're playing?

They can't follow the article's suggestion of giving you a mini-game to play during the load screen because that would violate Namco's patent 5,718,632 which covers exactly that: http://www.google.com/patents/US5718632

Wow , that's ridiculous. Although I'm not sure what game you could play in the 10 seconds or so it takes to load a program these days, plus you've got to load the game itself.

I have always wondered though why when doing an OS install they never provided a game or something interesting to do while you wait rather than show adverts for the product you are currently installing ("Windows 7 has all these great new features!".. "I know , hence why I bought it.."). They could at least give me a browser to use though.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#235

Post by jiggy2011 »

luser001 wrote: post #94

I ranted about this a few days ago. My favorite idiocy on Windows is their background "optimization" of .Net binaries. https://blogs.msdn.com/b/davidnotario/archive/2005/04/27/412... This service appears to perform a large number of I/O requests (probably reading/writing a large number of small files). It will totally consume the disk seek capacity, massively slowing down every other program that is also doing disk I…

I don't think it will be too long before every PC or laptop ships with an SSD as standard and mechanical disks will be relegated primarily to archiving duties.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#236

Post by talmand »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #220
talmand wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flash intros are the fault of the people who made them, not the software used to create them. When HTML5 canvas replaces Flash for such things will you then blame HTML5?

True, although from what I remember the flash development tools seemed to provide much functionality that seemed to be aimed specifically at creating things like this. IIRC there was something that was basically a "flash intro wizard" however this may well have just been added due to demand from developers for such features.

I don't recall such a wizard in Flash itself, although I wouldn't be surprised. That kind of thing seems something that a third-party would create and there are a large number of them out there. The main thing to remember was that the Flash intro, at one time, was an accepted practice. It was an easy way for a company to introduce itself, much like a commercial. It wasn't until it was overused that people started to dislike it and now people only remember disliking it.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#237

Post by jsavimbi »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #195
jsavimbi wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> up to speed in a new environment are you assuming that every time a developer switches job, he or she has to learn a new IDE. Life isn't like that. It's not impractical to assume that a user will use a specific subset of all of the tool offerings and doesn't need or use all of what the application has to offer. The app should be able to develop a profile based on what the user actually does with it instead of forci…

The problem is that beforehand you don't necessarily know which features you are going to need to use. I am constantly discovering new useful features in most of the programs I use, having to install plugins for every feature I wanted to use would quickly become a pain , hamper discoverablity and the program would probably just end up back where it started in terms of size. Besides when you have a program with a long…

Based on what you're writing, I detect that you have little experience in a [pro-level] multi-discipline working environment and you're assumptions are at best broad guesses.

GIMP to contend with? Adobe could give two shits about that app, its user base and the Linux community in general.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#238

Post by lusr »

ceol wrote: post #158
lusr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. If you're seeing that Photoshop splash screen regularly you simply don't have enough RAM. I keep my PC running for weeks on end and seldom close anything. With 12GB of RAM (which costs nothing) I almost never run out of RAM and every application is cached in RAM, so if I DO happen to close an application then reopening it is extremely fast. I shutdown my PC for the first time in weeks last night, and that was…

>(which costs nothing) When I saw this, I was sure you were wrong. However, looking on Newegg[0], 12GB RAM is about $60. That's just crazy to me. [0]: http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=381...

Tell me about it. I bought these guys and they're now 1/4 what I paid less than 1.5 years ago: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231...

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#239

Post by lusr »

eru wrote: post #114
lusr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. If you're seeing that Photoshop splash screen regularly you simply don't have enough RAM. I keep my PC running for weeks on end and seldom close anything. With 12GB of RAM (which costs nothing) I almost never run out of RAM and every application is cached in RAM, so if I DO happen to close an application then reopening it is extremely fast. I shutdown my PC for the first time in weeks last night, and that was…

Saves on electricity, and noise. Though suspend to RAM does that, too.

Assuming this hardware monitor is reasonably accurate, my hyperthreaded quad core i7 chows 145W when I'm really busy, which with my 80+ Corsair HX750W means I'm not eating more than 2 100W lightbulbs. I seldom play games any more so rarely use more than that. And that's when I'm doing serious number crunching. Since I'm only working at home about 4-5 hours/day during the week and maybe 2-3 that on weekend days, I really don't see electricity as much of an expense compared to time wasted rebooting and reopening all my work to where I last left it.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#240

Post by alex_c »

davedx wrote: post #225
alex_c wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone has to pay. Whether it's a higher price for users, less time spent on other features, or lower profits for the company, the effort has to come from somewhere. I don't disagree that responsiveness and user experience are important, but Basecamp is a webapp. Responsiveness for the most common tasks is a higher priority than the one-time cost at start-up. I'm not sure anyone is "throwing away their userbase"...…

I don't understand why everyone thinks the fact Basecamp is a webapp is important. As you say, responsiveness and user experience are important, and 37 Signals decided it was worth investing a significant amount in. Adobe have decided, over the years, that it is not.

Because comparing app loading time to website page load times is meaningless.

A better comparison are common tasks in Photoshop, like selection, fill, layer operations, filters, etc. - things that are done constantly while using the application. I don't have any point of reference, but they feel pretty responsive to me. If the article was making a case that Adobe has been neglecting optimization for common operations, then bringing up Basecamp or other webapps would be relevant.

I'm not sure how to explain it more clearly than that.

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