27 years later and the Psion 3a is still wonderful (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: 27 years later and the Psion 3a is still wonderful (2020)

#191

Post by giobox » Fri, Jun 02, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

jw1224 wrote: post #37

Psion 3c was what got me into programming! My grandfather gave me his old one when I was a kid. To an 11-year-old, a spreadsheet, world clock, and address book gets old pretty fast :) But the in-built OPL [1] language provided unlimited possibilities. You can see the icon for it in one of the screenshots. I remember printing off a copy of the 300-page language manual I found online (breaking dad’s printer in the proc…

Exactly the same here. Stole my fathers Psion 3a and wrote a lottery number picker in OPL. IIRC, it even had pretty great syntax to easily draw the various default OS UI elements.

The ability to write the application and then run it on the same mobile device was such a rewarding feedback loop as a kid. There were some pretty good books on OPL in the 90s too.

The standard of the third party gaming ecosystem for the OS (EPOC) was shockingly good for the time as well really, there was an amazing golf game, also written in OPL. That Steve Litchfield name I remember a lot from the era, he was extremely active developing OPL software:

> https://stevelitchfield.com/fairway.htm

Re: 27 years later and the Psion 3a is still wonderful (2020)

#192

Post by MobiusHorizons » Fri, Jun 02, 2023, 6:53 PM UTC

awiesenhofer wrote: post #166

MobiusHorizons wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used a boox tablet with a Bluetooth keyboard (actually an iPad keyboard with hinges) there is nontrivial latency while typing, but I found it was quite manageable. It just forces you to keep more of the command or line of text in your head. I found myself writing on it a lot. Even did a little programming.

Interesting, when or which device did you try this on? On my Boox Nova 3, typing via the BT Keyboard is pretty much instant, no noticable delay. Though in Word or Outlook it helps to choose the faster screen mode. No issues in Termux though.

Boox note 2

Re: 27 years later and the Psion 3a is still wonderful (2020)

#193

Post by amluto » Fri, Jun 02, 2023, 6:55 PM UTC

hedgehog wrote: post #174

oliwarner wrote: post #49

Lots of focus on the hardware here but its form factor still exists in niches. What has vanished, is our ability to do general-purpose computing at ~8MHz. Consider the computers you had in the 90s. Windows 3.11 and Office ran on a 286 but I sit here with 12 cores at ~4Ghz just to post this crumby comment. We are spoilt. It really makes me yearn to do more with less.

So sort of, but let's not look at the past too wistfully. I also remember when moderately long text had to be split across files (even multiple floppies if you were writing a book). I remember having to choose what languages my OS installation was going to be able to display. Farther back I remember not having the spare cash for the expansion card necessary to have lower case letters and typing in program listings ou…

> I remember having to choose what languages my OS installation was going to be able to display.

What changed?

Modern Windows still requires language packs, but you can apparently switch your primary language without a reinstall.

Adobe products still corrupt already-correct Arabic text unless you have the correct edition or add-on or something.

It was indeed annoying to transfer files at least until the Internet and flash drives were widely available, but that’s been more than 20 years.

Re: 27 years later and the Psion 3a is still wonderful (2020)

#194

Post by tomcam » Fri, Jun 02, 2023, 7:03 PM UTC

rebolek wrote: post #146

zozbot234 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What has vanished, is our ability to do general-purpose computing at ~8MHz. ahem https://xkcd.com/768/

I know there's XKCD for everything but I wonder if there should be.

No. I bet you could make a slightly better one and increase diversity in the online humor world.

https://xkcd.com/927/

Re: 27 years later and the Psion 3a is still wonderful (2020)

#195

Post by oliwarner » Fri, Jun 02, 2023, 7:16 PM UTC

hedgehog wrote: post #174

oliwarner wrote: post #49

Lots of focus on the hardware here but its form factor still exists in niches. What has vanished, is our ability to do general-purpose computing at ~8MHz. Consider the computers you had in the 90s. Windows 3.11 and Office ran on a 286 but I sit here with 12 cores at ~4Ghz just to post this crumby comment. We are spoilt. It really makes me yearn to do more with less.

So sort of, but let's not look at the past too wistfully. I also remember when moderately long text had to be split across files (even multiple floppies if you were writing a book). I remember having to choose what languages my OS installation was going to be able to display. Farther back I remember not having the spare cash for the expansion card necessary to have lower case letters and typing in program listings ou…

These limits of old hardware are exactly what makes the software so amazing.

Look what was achieved despite those limits. We've basically had the same desktop and productivity software for 30 years. Look at games like Doom or Tyrian, or what was happening on consoles and think about how crappy that hardware was.

Modern software is embarrassingly slow by comparison. I've been around long enough to know that's always been the way. Newer software drives new hardware sales and we're on yesteryear's supercomputers but why?

Re: 27 years later and the Psion 3a is still wonderful (2020)

#196

Post by 6510 » Fri, Jun 02, 2023, 7:24 PM UTC

hedgehog wrote: post #174

oliwarner wrote: post #49

Lots of focus on the hardware here but its form factor still exists in niches. What has vanished, is our ability to do general-purpose computing at ~8MHz. Consider the computers you had in the 90s. Windows 3.11 and Office ran on a 286 but I sit here with 12 cores at ~4Ghz just to post this crumby comment. We are spoilt. It really makes me yearn to do more with less.

So sort of, but let's not look at the past too wistfully. I also remember when moderately long text had to be split across files (even multiple floppies if you were writing a book). I remember having to choose what languages my OS installation was going to be able to display. Farther back I remember not having the spare cash for the expansion card necessary to have lower case letters and typing in program listings ou…

> So sort of, but let's not look at the past too wistfully.

why?

> I also remember when moderately long text had to be split across files (even multiple floppies if you were writing a book).

2MB is 2 million bytes, The average book is something like 0.5

> I remember having to choose what languages my OS installation was going to be able to display.

This is a bad thing?

> Farther back I remember not having the spare cash for...

lol, irrelevant!

> Our current generation of PCs is probably within a factor of two of the minimum spec necessary for robust machine translation and natural language interfaces.

I have no idea what you just said. People for the most part read/write text and watch videos. This would work much better if we eliminated compute entirely.

> I enjoy using the old hardware but it really doesn't do most of the jobs we have now.

imho the way to look at old hardware is to look at only the good features we've lost. For example, I cant think of anything I want from a c64 except from sprite collision and having menu entries starting with function keys [F1] because that worked so insanely fast compared to a mouse. The rest was just coping with the state of the art.

Re: 27 years later and the Psion 3a is still wonderful (2020)

#197

Post by lynx23 » Fri, Jun 02, 2023, 7:27 PM UTC

oliwarner wrote: post #49

Lots of focus on the hardware here but its form factor still exists in niches. What has vanished, is our ability to do general-purpose computing at ~8MHz. Consider the computers you had in the 90s. Windows 3.11 and Office ran on a 286 but I sit here with 12 cores at ~4Ghz just to post this crumby comment. We are spoilt. It really makes me yearn to do more with less.

On a positive note, HN is one of the very few sites left which is still simple enough to be used with older browsers. I am writing this comment in the text console (no X11) of a Raspberry Pi 3 with a braille display (no monitor connected) as the output device. Using lynx as a pretty reliable browser. It is the exception, I know, I am a freak by nature of my disability, but I am also proud to know this niche still exists and it is actually possible to do some interesting things online with very little resources.

Re: 27 years later and the Psion 3a is still wonderful (2020)

#198

Post by LeoPanthera » Fri, Jun 02, 2023, 7:34 PM UTC

Jun8 wrote: post #156

So, motivated by this article, I checked eBay, expecting to burn $20-30 to get one and found that these sell for around $100 (thank god, didn’t buy another device to add to my pile). My question is: who buys these at that price and for what purpose? Collecting old devices? Using them? I don’t think buying these have the allure of retro computing, eg buying a Sinclair Spectrum.

I bet some people still use them. I used my Psion 5mx as my primary organizer until only a few years ago, and I still kind of miss it. It still works, but lacking any kind of connectivity except for infrared, it's increasingly difficult to justify in today's world.

Re: 27 years later and the Psion 3a is still wonderful (2020)

#199

Post by a1369209993 » Fri, Jun 02, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

tivert wrote: post #162

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultra low power processors exist: "GreenArrays is shipping its 144-core asynchronous chip that needs little energy (7 pJ/inst). Idle cores use no power (100 nW). Active ones (4 mW) run fast (666 Mips), then wait for communication (idle). Tight coding to minimize instructions executed will minimize power. The programmer can also reduce instruction fetches, transistor switching and duty cycle. Chuck Moore GreenArrays,…

> They just are not widely used because ARM and similar processors offer much more computational power and people are happy charging their devices every day or so. This is exactly my point. Ultra low power processors exist, but they're not used for consumer electronics. Developers would rather build something bloated, quickly, than take the time to optimize. And technological advancements has taken away a lot of the…

> If I were a dictator that ruled with an iron fist, I'd mandate that all software be developed[^W*] on underpowered devices, then released on fast ones.

*"tested"/"run during development exclusively"

You still want the text editor and more importantly compiler to run on beefy workstation hardware, in order to avoid programmer productivity problems like long compilation times[0] and to take advantage of CPU-intensive optimization techniques.

0: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/303

Re: 27 years later and the Psion 3a is still wonderful (2020)

#200

Post by Multicomp » Fri, Jun 02, 2023, 7:46 PM UTC

tivert wrote: post #162

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultra low power processors exist: "GreenArrays is shipping its 144-core asynchronous chip that needs little energy (7 pJ/inst). Idle cores use no power (100 nW). Active ones (4 mW) run fast (666 Mips), then wait for communication (idle). Tight coding to minimize instructions executed will minimize power. The programmer can also reduce instruction fetches, transistor switching and duty cycle. Chuck Moore GreenArrays,…

> They just are not widely used because ARM and similar processors offer much more computational power and people are happy charging their devices every day or so. This is exactly my point. Ultra low power processors exist, but they're not used for consumer electronics. Developers would rather build something bloated, quickly, than take the time to optimize. And technological advancements has taken away a lot of the…

> If I were a dictator that ruled with an iron fist, I'd mandate that all software be developed on underpowered devices, then released on fast ones.

Agreed! I wish there were widespread ways of throttling CPU and memory given to desktop applications today. If I'm testing a web application, I tell Firefox to throttle my network down to GPRS and see the responsiveness (or lack thereof) and once my work is done and GPRS is reasonably fast (or whatever) I can give a quick glance at normal 4G speeds and see my web app screams now.

So why can't I lock a desktop application to settings like "an unused 386 PC with 24MB of RAM"?