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California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

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Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#111
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard it called the homelessness industrial complex, that was from some City Journal article someone posted to HN some years back that introduced me to that publication. It was a shocking thing to contemplate but yah with that sum of money what exactly do we have to show for it?

If you're being paid by the government to manage homeless people, your incentive is to keep them homeless. Else your contact would end.

This same nonsense logic would apply to the police, firemen and nurses too. Are the firemen out there discouraging sprinkler systems because they want to keep their jobs?

Even if we were looking at this from an utterly cynical, purely financial viewpoint, the people paid to help the homeless are effectively property managers and they benefit from housing the homeless, not letting them sleep on the street.

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#112

That’s because Cali’s approach is insane. They give you hundreds a month in cash grants (some make $1k a month in SF) and require you to make NO alterations to your lifestyle. I was amazed when living in SF how many of the homeless are not locals. Not even Californians! I myself lived on the streets for a number of years and have dealt with addiction issues. It is absolutely insane how we’ve stopped treating homeless…

> I was amazed when living in SF how many of the homeless are not locals. Not even Californians!

My least favorite part of this was the local media pretended this wasn't true. They pretended it vociferously despite this being such an obvious lie.

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#113

Homelessness is a failure of the Federal government that nobody there is even willing to talk about. This can't be solved at a local or state level in a country with unrestricted freedom of movement.

Maybe China is on to something.

Lifting 800 Million People Out of Poverty – New Report Looks at Lessons from China’s Experience

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/l...

90% of families in China own their own home

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7546956/

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving addicts drug money instead of providing for their needs is the peak of inhumanity.

Drug-addicts is something you interpret. It is specified that they are homeless. Doing this conflation is the worst kind of anti-ethical you can be. Just like assuming other things about whole groups of people. For this debate, I can really recommend Rutger Bregman and his books. One of his important points about poverty is that people are that: Poor. And that is their problem.

[deleted]

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#115
I know a lot of this discussion focuses on the Bay Area, but I live in central LA and the situation is totally out of control here as well. Needles, human feces, trash everywhere, people sleeping in front of storefronts.

Walking around parts of LA at night feels like you're in a neo-noir dystopian film. It's literally ghastly.

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is giving people money unconditionally not treating them as “humans with potential and aspirations”? I’m not entirely sure what your point is. Are you saying that adding more rules and conditions and whatnot is better? I don’t have a well-formed opinion here myself, just that most people arguing for treating benefit recipients humanely argue for fewer rules, not more. So I’d like to understand your point better.

I’m not at all against unconditional cash grants. I work for a non-profit that does just that. What I am against is a totally unstructured program where they hand cash out knowing that 90% of it goes into an open air drug market that they make no attempt to shut down or control. I’m not arguing for work requirements or time limits. People who are legitimately struggling will fall through the cracks. But I don’t think…

> I’m not arguing for work requirements or time limits

> I don’t think it is insane or inhumane to require people to work

Sorry if I'm missing something, but aren't these directly antithetical?

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#118

I know a lot of this discussion focuses on the Bay Area, but I live in central LA and the situation is totally out of control here as well. Needles, human feces, trash everywhere, people sleeping in front of storefronts. Walking around parts of LA at night feels like you're in a neo-noir dystopian film. It's literally ghastly.

[dead]

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#119
If you spend [big scary number] on a thing and it "doesn't work", absent some real analysis that just as much means you under spent as that you may have over spent.

It's like pointing at construction cranes in a rapidly growing city and saying, "look none of this new housing is working because rents keep going up!"

California and so many other regions have real unaddressed homelessness issues that have long, long been utterly ignored. It's more likely that we're insufficiently addressing the real scope of the issue.

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#120
This reads as a political ad, not a news story.

The ad is good at pulling heart strings and getting people riled up (see comments here) but does not do any actual reporting. How did California spend the money? Were there leaky buckets? How does California have 50% of the homeless and 12% of the population? Are people being bussed in, making this a federal problem? Who's responsible? Don't just tell me the governor, there's people Newsom appointed. Don't just get me riled up, tell me what's actually going on so that I can inform myself of how to fix this. Don't just say this is a problem and point a singular finger talking about large sums of money, break it down. Tell me why homeless decreased in SF and Orange but increased in LA, San Jose, Oakland, and San Diego[0]. Tell me why it skyrocketed since 2016, starting with Brown and then accelerated under Newsom[1]. Tell me what FL is doing to solve their issues that NY and CA aren't.

Do some investigation. Distill expert information to me. Be a news article, not a political ad.

[0] https://www.ppic.org/blog/homeless-populations-are-rising-ar...

[1] https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/homeles...

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