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Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

arstechnica.com

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Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#401

Post by CalRobert »

justahuman74 wrote: post #328
CWuestefeld wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I've been a licensed driver for over 40 years. I had one minor fender-bender at 16 years old, learned my lesson, and haven't had another accident since. I'm an exceptionally good driver as evidenced by this, plus the fact that I've taken performance driving classes, simulators, and so forth. I, personally, am a much lower risk than the typical driver. Putting a drivers' aid device in my car may well incre…

I thought I was a low risk driver, then when doing a lot of hours riding a motorcycle it became very apparent how incredibly terrible of a car driver I was. So much general threat and risk was invisible as a car driver contained in a big metal box.

Riding a bike (motorcycle or bicycle) should be mandatory for learning to drive a car.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#402

Post by regularjack »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #326
ClassyJacket wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. You are not the only person on the road, you are creating risk for other drivers and pedestrians every time you drive. Vehicle regulation should be based on the overall safest option, not 'dignity' or freedom or individualism anything like that.

So what? If that's the price to pay to maintain control, fine. These precedents are also creating risk by the way. It hasn't been that long ago since news was posted here of security researchers remotely cutting off car engines or cars repossessing themselves if you don't pay on time. That's the sort of existential risk you're paving the way for by accepting "safety" in exchange for control. It's not really your car…

Right, it's a slippery slope. Today they're making your car save lives, tomorrow they'll be draining your bank accounts and seducing your significant others.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#403

Post by Neil44 »

jjav wrote: post #359
mkmk wrote: post #19

This feature once saved me from what would have otherwise been a very nasty crash, many years ago. I was driving too fast in a borrowed car over a small hill and hadn't realized that traffic had stopped just out of my sight until too late. I heard a beep and saw flashing on my dash and I started braking but a moment later the emergency braking system kicked in, braking much harder than I would have been able to. The…

> the emergency braking system kicked in, braking much harder than I would have been able to So this is completely not true. You can brake as hard as any system can, there's no magic to it. Just press on the brake pedal hard, in any ABS car. Surprisingly, this is something people often don't do. I am an instructor at car control clinics, one of the exercises is panic braking. All you need to do it press on the brake…

I believe that the statistics are that most people don't brake anywhere near hard enough in accidents, because you're just not used to pushing the pedal that hard.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#404

Post by williamcotton »

jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

I want measurements like fatalities per 100 million miles driven to guide this conversation because there are so many emotionally driven reactions to Elon Musk and AI/ML that I can’t help but think that comments are motivated by things other than human safety!

That being said, I do think that touch screens are a terrible design decision on almost all devices.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#405

Post by williamcotton »

mhb wrote: post #212
notatoad wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this seems like the sort of thing that would be better measured with actual numbers, not just anecdotes from people on the internet. the NHTSA is a pretty cautious organization, and they like numbers. if they've studied it and found that automatic braking will prevent 24000 crashes and 360 deaths per year, i'd be inclined to believe them. having the car brake for me when i'm not expecting it sounds kind of scary to m…

And the actual numbers should include the opportunity cost (in lives saved or QALYs, if you like) of the increased price of vehicles with these systems. Could that money have been spent on smoke detectors or healthier food or ?

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#406

Post by darkerside »

taeric wrote: post #279
Dylan16807 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not listening. The 38% number can be true and there can be particular groups that are hurt more than helped. Nobody is trying to "argue against" the 38% number.

In a cost benefit, if the number drops 38%, you are going to have to work to show it isn't worth it. What would the number have to be? Can they make the system even better by finding cases it didn't help? Almost certainly. Progress isn't a straight line, but increases are increases.

Respectfully, you're taking an extremely naive stance to a topic where others are trying to bring nuance. I think if you listen carefully, you'd learn something that will help you not just on this topic but in your life.

Logical fallacies like the base rate fallacy are real, and they fool all of us frequently, myself included.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#407

Post by tm-guimaraes »

sroussey wrote: post #136
jacquesm wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar situation with an 87 year old family member that still drives and I've offered to be on call for chauffeur service or to pay for cabs or whatever it takes but they will keep doing it until they either die from other causes or get into an accident, which in my opinion is only a matter of time. So far I've managed to get them to rely on me for two really long rides and at least they no longer go on the…

My father is 87 and drives well. He is cognizant of his age and tries to only drive during the day and relatively short distances (I like 90min away and he is not visiting). My fear is that if there is a decline that I won’t see it, and at 87 he isn’t interested in a new car with more safety features.

> and at 87 he isn’t interested in a new car with more safety features.

The safety features of a new car might not offset the safety of the muscle memory of driving the old car. At that age and with declining capabilities, the "usual" might actually be safer than "safer but different".

Since he seems mindful of his declining capabilities (he is restricting when and by how much he drives), i wouldn't worry too much, he would most likely stop driving on his own, just keep checking him.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#408

Post by darkerside »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #326
ClassyJacket wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. You are not the only person on the road, you are creating risk for other drivers and pedestrians every time you drive. Vehicle regulation should be based on the overall safest option, not 'dignity' or freedom or individualism anything like that.

So what? If that's the price to pay to maintain control, fine. These precedents are also creating risk by the way. It hasn't been that long ago since news was posted here of security researchers remotely cutting off car engines or cars repossessing themselves if you don't pay on time. That's the sort of existential risk you're paving the way for by accepting "safety" in exchange for control. It's not really your car…

Beware false dichotomies

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#409

Post by rad_gruchalski »

drivebycomment wrote: post #208
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is funny considering the explanation that was presented to me about why is it legal in the US to ride a motorcycle without a crash helmet. The explanation is: in case of an accident, the motorcycle driver has a lower chance to survive without the helmet. From the insurer’s perspective paying out a one time death insurance might be cheaper than paying someone money every month for the rest of their life. No idea…

> why is it legal in the US to ride a motorcycle without a crash helmet. This depends on the state: https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/calculator/factshee... > As of 2021, 18 states and the District of Columbia had universal motorcycle helmet laws, 29 states had laws requiring helmets for certain riders, and three states did not have any motorcycle helmet laws.

Well, forgive me then. That’s the discussion I had back in 2016, when visiting the US the last time. Good to see there’s progress.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#410

Post by darkerside »

tialaramex wrote: post #395
_moof wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a similar one among sailors: "The mark of a great shiphandler is never getting into situations that require great shiphandling." Anyone operating a machine in a way that doesn't leave much margin is, in fact, not skilled at operating that machine.

It's really interesting watching videos of emergency responders in my country (the UK) either showing how their advanced driving looks in practice, or in later stages of training when they're explaining their thoughts to an instructor as they work. Their progress through traffic is markedly faster without greatly compromising safety. They aren't making violent manoeuvres, they accelerate pretty aggressively but other…

Would love to know more
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