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Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

bmj.com

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Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#61

Post by [deleted] »

King-Aaron wrote: post #34
gnicholas wrote: post #31

I came to leave a snarky joke comment about "in mice?", and then I remembered that mice don't actually need parachutes because their terminal velocity is roughly the same as a human using a parachute [1]. If someone actually ran the study with mice, they'd find that parachutes aren't necessary! 1: https://johnmjennings.com/can-a-mouse-survive-a-fall-from-a-...

That introduction Haldane quote: > You can drop a mouse down a thousand-yard mine shaft; and, on arriving at the bottom, it gets a slight shock and walks away, provided that the ground is fairly soft. A rat is killed, a man is broken, a horse splashes. "A horse splashes". That's some mental imagery right there.

[deleted]

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#62

Post by sampo »

hcks wrote: post #12

What point is this article trying to make?

> What point is this article trying to make?

There is no evidence from RCT studies, that parachutes work (this post).

There is no (or only very weak) evidence from RCT studies, that condoms work: https://jech.bmj.com/content/65/2/100

According to the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, there is no evidence from RCT studies, that face masks would protect against respiratory infections: https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD...

The point is that the Cochrane review is probably wrong, and face masks do protect, just like parachutes and condoms. And the more general point is to criticize the whole process, that has made half of the Western medical doctors mask skeptics. The point is to say that there are protective equipment that obviously, measurably works, but for which it is difficult to present evidence from RCT-type studies.

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#63

Post by PapstJL4U »

d--b wrote: post #60

Honest question: is this satire or gpt?

deep deep down:

>The PARACHUTE trial satirically highlights some of the limitations of randomized controlled trials. Nevertheless, we believe that such trials remain the gold standard for the evaluation of most new treatments. The PARACHUTE trial does suggest, however, that their accurate interpretation requires more than a cursory reading of the abstract.

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#65

Post by xpil »

nroets wrote: post #18
cmcaleer wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandfather was wearing one and died. This is clear and thorough proof they don't work (he was hit with flak as a paratrooper).

That's why I'm working on an invisible parachute. So that flak gunners can't see the paratroopers.

Maybe I am missing something but an invisible parachute would reveal more of a paratrooper than a visible one.

Want to hide the paratrooper completely - use large, spherical parachutes. Elementary.

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#67

Post by dtgriscom »

fragmede wrote: post #46
gnicholas wrote: post #31

I came to leave a snarky joke comment about "in mice?", and then I remembered that mice don't actually need parachutes because their terminal velocity is roughly the same as a human using a parachute [1]. If someone actually ran the study with mice, they'd find that parachutes aren't necessary! 1: https://johnmjennings.com/can-a-mouse-survive-a-fall-from-a-...

Also correlation is not causation. Just because some people jumping from planes have parachutes doesn't mean that all people jumping from planes have parachutes.

Wearing parachutes cause people to jump out of planes.

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#68

Post by meindnoch »

londons_explore wrote: post #47
gnicholas wrote: post #31

I came to leave a snarky joke comment about "in mice?", and then I remembered that mice don't actually need parachutes because their terminal velocity is roughly the same as a human using a parachute [1]. If someone actually ran the study with mice, they'd find that parachutes aren't necessary! 1: https://johnmjennings.com/can-a-mouse-survive-a-fall-from-a-...

The fact that mice don't appear to deliberately jump off high things as a way to get down tells me that they probably do get hurt... Just because they don't fall super fast doesn't mean they don't get injured because they don't have as much distance to "drop and roll" like a human does.

>The fact that mice don't appear to deliberately jump off high things as a way to get down tells me that they probably do get hurt...

Isn't this how bats have evolved though?

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#69

Post by 411111111111111 »

londons_explore wrote: post #47
gnicholas wrote: post #31

I came to leave a snarky joke comment about "in mice?", and then I remembered that mice don't actually need parachutes because their terminal velocity is roughly the same as a human using a parachute [1]. If someone actually ran the study with mice, they'd find that parachutes aren't necessary! 1: https://johnmjennings.com/can-a-mouse-survive-a-fall-from-a-...

The fact that mice don't appear to deliberately jump off high things as a way to get down tells me that they probably do get hurt... Just because they don't fall super fast doesn't mean they don't get injured because they don't have as much distance to "drop and roll" like a human does.

> The fact that mice don't appear to deliberately jump off high things as a way to get down tells me that they probably do get hurt...

They explicitly added the caveat about the soft ground. There'd be very little opportunity for mouses to become comfortable with jumping from high areas as there'd be very few occasions that satisfy the requirement. If the mouse jumped into a cave and can't get out, it'd starve to death. If it jumped off a cliff and fell into water, it would drown. If it fell off a skyscraper, there'd be Asphalt at the ground etc. Off the top of my head, there are no natural places in which mouses could safely get comfortable with jumping. Thus, they'd only do so if they're in mortal danger. And they absolutely do jump off high places if they're terrified

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#70

Post by ricksunny »

King-Aaron wrote: post #34
gnicholas wrote: post #31

I came to leave a snarky joke comment about "in mice?", and then I remembered that mice don't actually need parachutes because their terminal velocity is roughly the same as a human using a parachute [1]. If someone actually ran the study with mice, they'd find that parachutes aren't necessary! 1: https://johnmjennings.com/can-a-mouse-survive-a-fall-from-a-...

That introduction Haldane quote: > You can drop a mouse down a thousand-yard mine shaft; and, on arriving at the bottom, it gets a slight shock and walks away, provided that the ground is fairly soft. A rat is killed, a man is broken, a horse splashes. "A horse splashes". That's some mental imagery right there.

Makes me wonder if a bunch of the world's smallest flightless mammal (a fraction of the house mouse's mass) were released at altitude, would they survive? (Not proposing that this be done but thought experiments and/or simulations):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_shrew

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